All Blacks: How the forwards depth rates against Razor's four deep project

I agree with BleedRed&Black:

‘The biggest single problem is NZ rugby's habit of shunting big loose forwards into lock, and mid-size loose forwards who have come through as opensides onto the blindside, none of which ever succeed at international level.’

Given the central control of SR by NZR, surely Razor can begin gently nudging the Chiefs, say, to start playing Ah Kuoi at 6, Crusaders to play Scooter at 6 when he comes back, to back up the obvious promise of Parker as a big tight/loose dog. Let’s stop pushing hybrids like Blackadder and Sititi to 6, when they’re not built for purpose at test level. The benchmarks are the likes of PSDT, Courtney Lawes, Taigh Beirne…

We have plenty of depth at 7 and 8, given hybrids like Lakai and Savea and Sititi (who could play 7 too). The problem is 6, and Razor’s and other commentators’ quotes about ‘the number on the back doesn’t matter’ are just so unhelpful at test level.

Project four deep doesn’t just imply that the All Blacks have four options at each position, it’s that the options are proven, in-form, and are experienced enough to be trusted in the big games when called upon.

This will be wrong. It will just be that he has brought 4 players through in each position, or in multiple positions.

if Brodie McAlister is the next in line then we really are in trouble, hes the most ponderous unaware hooker in nz. George bell is the next best hooker we have and easily so.

It's just not realistic to actually give 60 players meaningful numbers of test caps and also have a cohesive side. Razor then contradicts himself- as only BB and DMac got decent time at 10 and Ardie played virtually every minute at 7.

See there a young kid from Northland just landed a scholarship at top NFL university in in Florida.he is 18,stands 6ft8 and weighs 168kg.😳🤣razor pick him,🤣

A vivid example of the colossal discrepancy between tight forwards in NZ, which are excellent with massive potential across the board, and the loose forwards, where outside the top 3, Savea, Lakai and Sititi, the experienced are at best adequate at international level and the rest in that list are largely unknown. Crap player development at SR level, Crusaders included, has left the AB's well short of what is needed in test rugby. That the article includes Ollie Mathis, a player with no SR experience, and barely any at openside at NPC level, is indicative of just how poor NZ is.

The biggest single problem is NZ rugby's habit of shunting big loose forwards into lock, and mid-size loose forwards who have come through as opensides onto the blindside, none of which ever succeed at international level. Ironically enough it also damages the SR's teams, because if you are going to win playoff games in NZ in June when the weather craps out and the game narrows down you need big locks and big loose forwards to get you the win. Hopefully there is a generation of players not listed there that can create depth and competition, though they have to get the opportunity, and in the position they are most capable of succeeding in at international level.

Openside Anton Segner, Veveni Lasaqa.

No. 8 Malachi Wrampling, Dominic Gardiner, Will Stodart.

Blindside Cameron Christie, Xavier Saifoloi, Caleb Delany, Oliver Haig.

Ethan Blackadder should have been picked ahead of Jacobsen and Finau after his efforts in helping the Crusaders get the title. Cullen Grace , his team mate is another. Sam Darry needs more chances, his form for the Blues last year and Canterbury this year suggest he needs a chance.Canterbury and Crusaders lock Jamie Hannah has had a great year. High work rate , great skills. Great he made the NZ 15. As pointed out , Corey Kellow was stunning before injury for Canterbury, must be looked at. Paddy T will be welcomed back , he was missed.

If you list only the players who are good enough to start a test match against a top 5 nation and win, this would be the depth chart:

Loosehead: DeGroot, Williams

Hooker: Taylor, Taukeo’aho, Aumua

Tighthead: Lomax, Newell

Lock: Barrett, Holland, Tuipulotu, Lord

Blindside: Vaa’i, Parker, Frizell

Openside: Lakai, Papalii

No 8: Savea, Sititi

Blindside: Vaa’i, Parker, Frizell, Howden, Finau, Grace

Openside: Lakai, Papailii, Jacobson, Blackadder, Kirifi

No 8: Savea, Sititi, Flanders, Lio-Willie

Savea was a liability as a test openside. He is rarely first to breakdown to secure attacking ball, he is rarely first to make the tackle, he cleans fewer rucks than any other back row forward. Savea is a powerful ball carrier and jackals. He plays like an 8, despite wearing jersey 7.

Sititi is a pure ball carrier and reliable jumper on his own ball. But he does not do nearly enough on defence and at the breakdown for a blindside.

Lakai wore the 8 jersey but when he played with Savea, did all the ruck cleaning and tackling for Savea. If Lakai is going to do the work of a 7, then why not put him in the 7 jersey.

This “4 deep” concept appears to be the only definable strategy this team has. Even, then, Razor only plays lip service to it, by rolling out his best 23 every week.

Not a huge fan of these name listings but lumping two positions together annoys me. When you look at lock having 4 is the minimum. You need three in most 23’s and its very common to have a couple out.

Look at England. Started the year with Itoji and Martin, then Chessum then Cole, then Ewels coming of the bench. Even had CCS play there against Wales.

You need at least 6 or 7 who are functioning internationals if you look at depth.

I don’t think anyone has questioned the level of depth in the AB squad, it’s the game strategy and the style they are playing that is frustrating people. It feels like they are picking the wrong players in the wrong order, whilst not giving others chances, whilst being outplayed by the opposition.

How they have managed Leicester Faingaʻanuku this season is a classic example and I am afraid that sits with the coaching team. Picking your team and playing to their strengths is a key thing at this level and that’s something that Razor has really struggled with throughout.

I guess the Boks can also just trundle out a list of names, which makes the Boks depth about 8 deep 🤭

By the criteria established at the beginning of this article, the ABs have 4 options per position, and that’s about it.

4 deep in his bum