'The Gray brothers, Gilchrist or Toolis - there's none you would class as hard men'
Jim Telfer talks about the toughest characters in the great Scotland teams of yore as a proud father would beam over his offspring, his deep, rumbling brogue swelling up like a tsunami approaching shore.
He name-checks David Leslie, a man who seemed to take a perverse delight in wedging his face where most would fear to tread in steel toe-caps. Then the totem Finlay Calder, a fearsome and canny Lions captain who would tackle a buffalo were one galloping towards the Scottish try-line. These men were open-side flankers and Grand Slam winners in the glorious teams of 1984 and 1990.
“Finlay Calder, he was a beast of a man. He wasn’t a huge man but by god, tough. And David Leslie was really hard,” Telfer says.
“They never needed to punch anybody, never needed to stand up and say things – they just did it by their actions.”
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The great man is well into his eighth decade now. It is almost 50 years since the last of his Scotland and Lions caps, over 35 since he first coached the tourists and 22 since his sensational “Everest” address, immortalised on film, roused his forwards to slay the hulking Springboks pack.
Rugby has changed immeasurably in all that time, but the snarl you need to win Test matches has not.
What Gregor Townsend would give for a Leslie or a Calder or a Telfer now, with so many of his biggest hitters crocked and Scotland floundering in the Six Nations. Reaching their Everest? In this campaign, Scotland have barely summited Arthur’s Seat. Those desperately disappointing losses to Ireland and France have drained away the customary torrent of pre-tournament optimism.
Scotland have some wonderful footballers and, like every team these days, some big bruisers, but whether they possess that level of hostility is another matter. Are they “nasty” enough for the ruthless demands of championship rugby? Would they give their mother a good shoeing if she were lying on the wrong side of a ruck?
“There is a lack of hardness in the front-five in particular,” Telfer says.
“If you take Richie and Jonny Gray, Grant Gilchrist, Ben Toolis – there’s none you would class as hard men. If you’re going up a close to have a fight with somebody, would you want them with you? I’m not so sure. You need a Nathan Hines. Ryan Wilson tries to do it but he’s a bit amateurish.
“Gary Graham’s a bit like this – on Saturday [against France], he was on the pitch for about a minute and he was looking for a fight. He has to concentrate on the game because the likes of Kieran Read or Richie McCaw, they never used to punch anybody. If they needed to do it, it was just hard rugby they played. I don’t think we’ve got many forwards like that at the moment. We haven’t got a bloke like Hines, who was an enforcer.”
Telfer says that belligerence, that defiant refusal to take a backwards step, cannot be learned. You can’t batter an iron spirit into a man with a rucking pad and a scrum machine, although lord knows he gave it a damn good go in his day.
“That’s natural. You can’t teach a bloke to become dirty or hard, it’s in you and you just develop it,” he says.
“That Kyle Sinckler, one of these days he’s going to let England down badly. On TV they said apart from this and that, Sinckler had an outstanding game, tackled 16 folk. Fair enough, he maybe did, but he gave two or three penalties away that were absolutely vital. He was screwing Alun Wyn Jones’ head off in front of the referee. In that Rugby Paper, he was saying, ‘I am never out of control; I’m always in control’. Well if he’s in control, I wouldnae like to see someone who’s no’.”
That grim day in Paris where Scotland failed to put any modicum of fear into one of the weakest-willed French teams in memory reinforced the “inevitable” to Telfer – they cannot do without their heavy artillery and expect to beat opposition this skilled.
Townsend, of course, had been shorn of so much firepower – no Stuart Hogg, no Finn Russell, no John Barclay, no WP Nel, no Hamish Watson. All of them sidelined and many more besides.
“It’s no good moaning about it,” Telfer says. “All coaches get that, you lose your best player and you feel like committing suicide sometimes. They played like a team that had a feeling they weren’t going to win.
“Other people have to take a lead, and you look at Sean Maitland, you look at Tommy Seymour, they did nothing. They’re always talking about leaders – Jonny Gray, when his brother comes back I think he’ll probably go. He’s reached a level now where he’s just a workmanlike journeyman, whereas Gilchrist to me has taken over as the premier second-row. Greig Laidlaw, pretty average, didn’t take on the mantle as leader.
“When you haven’t got these other guys pulling the strings, some of these players are pretty ordinary. Gregor, hopefully, will learn from this that you have to live without Russell, without Hogg, but other players come in. The likes of Blair Kinghorn, he’s got his chance now and he’s a good player, different from Hogg – quicker, probably, with long strides. He’s not very physical.
“When Gael Fickou went through for the try that was disallowed, Kinghorn made sure he wasn’t there – if you’ve a wee bit of experience you can work it out. If he’d really come in, he would have clattered Fickou. But he’s a good player.”
In a championship of frustration, amid a mountain of missed opportunities, Telfer picks out one of the most infuriating malfunctions. It came against Ireland, with half-time looming, Scotland trailing by two points and pummelling away in the visiting 22. Huw Jones shovelled a pass behind Seymour when the winger had a clear dash to the whitewash had the ball not forced him to check his stride.
This was a maddening act of butchery at the end of a fruitless siege on the Irish line and it prompted the injured Hogg to smash his boot through a pitch-side advertising board before storming up the tunnel irate.
“That should have been a try,” Telfer says. “You don’t judge yourself on warm-up exercises, ‘oh, lovely passing action’, you judge it when there’s a man coming at 100mph to tackle you and take your head off. Would the All Blacks score it? Yes.
“We haven’t reached that level of efficiency. If you want to be really top dog, that’s the area that has to get a lot better. You could almost guarantee that if the All Blacks hammer away for five or six phases, one-out stuff, it’ll be a winger or outside back scoring.
“At this level, in the northern hemisphere, our countries still aren’t good enough to do that. They still hammer away. Instead of five, they go to 10 phases and hope for a penalty or a penalty try. Or they sometimes get a penalty advantage and do the chip kick. I don’t think we’ve got the mental toughness to eventually finish off two-to-one in the corner.”
Telfer sees a desire in the northern nations to overpower rather than outfox, to plump for the bludgeon not the brain, and it gnaws at him. In short, he finds it boring. Too much up-the-jumper stuff. Too little inventiveness. Not proper rugby.
“The standard of the Six Nations has been getting better but this season so far I don’t think spectators have been getting their money’s worth – and they spend a lot of money,” he says.
“On Saturday, Wales just played one-out rugby and garryowens, and England did the same, Manu Tuilagi hardly got a pass. It was a great contest, two gladiators knocking hell out of each other, there was effort and atmosphere, but the quality of expansive rugby was non-existent. Wales and England have outstanding back-threes but all they did was chase kicks.
“Ireland were going to wipe everyone off the face of the earth… poor, they’ve been poor. They’ve been sussed out. Wales are a good team but I think they’re workmanlike rather than brilliant and England could be a very good team but they really went into their shells on Saturday. I was disappointed in that game and you come back and get the old fix when you watch Super Rugby, the Crusaders and the Highlanders – real rugby being played.”
Comments on RugbyPass
There’s a bit of depth there but realistically Australian players have a long way to go to now catch up. The game is moving on fast and Australia are falling behind. Australian sides still don’t priories the breakdown like they should, it’s a non-negotiable if you want to compete on the international stage. That goes for forwards and backs. The Australian team could have a back row that could make a difference but the problem is they don’t have a tight five that can do the business. Tupou is limited in defence, overweight and unfit and the locks are a long way from international standard. Frost is soft and Salakai-Loto is too small so that means they need a Valentini at 8 who has to do the hard graft so limits the effectiveness of the backrow. Schmidt really needs to get a hard working, tough tight 5 if he wants to get this team firing.
3 Go to commentsSorry Morgan you must have been the “go to for a quote” ex player this week. Its rnd 6 and there is plenty of time to cement a starting 15 and finishing 8 so I have no such concerns.
2 Go to commentsGreat read. I wish you had done this article on the ROAR.
2 Go to commentsThe current AB coaching team is basically the Crusaders so it smacks of wanting their familiar leaders around. This is not a good look for the future of the ABs or the younger players in Super working their way up the player ladder. Razor is touted as innovative, forward looking but his early moves look like insecurity and insular, provincial thinking. He is the AB's coach not the Golden Oldies.
10 Go to commentsSimple reason for wanting him back. Robertson wants him as captain. Otherwise he wouldn’t be bothering chasing him. Not enough reason to come back just to mentor.
10 Go to commentsI had not considered this topic like this at all, brilliant read. I had been looking at his record at the Waratahs and thought it odd the Crusaders appointed him, then couple that with all that experience and talent departing and boom. They’ve got some great talent developing though, and in all honesty I don’t think anyone would be over confident taking them on in a playoff match, no matter how poor the first half of their season was. I think they can pull a game out of their ass when it counts.
2 Go to commentsNot a bad list but not Porecki and not Donaldson. Not because they are Tahs, or Ex Tahs, they are just not good enough. Edmed should be ahead. Far more potential. Wilson should be 8 and Valentini 6. Wilson needs to be told by his father and his coach, stop bloody running in to brick wall defence. You’re not playing under the genius Thorn any more. He’s a fantastic angle runner. The young new 8 from the Brumbies looks really good too. The Lonegrans are just too small for international rugby as is Paisami, as is Hamish Stewart at 12. Both great at Super Rugby level. Stewart could have been a great 10 if not for Brad Thorn. Uru should be there and so should Tupou. Tupou just needs good Australian coaching which he hasn’t been getting. I don’t think Schmidt will excite him.
3 Go to commentsIf he wants to come back then he should. He will be a major asset to the younger locks and could easily be played as an impact player off the bench coming on in the last 30. He is fit, strong and capable and has all the experience to make up for any loss in physical prowess. He could also be brought back with a view to coaching within the structures one day. Duane Vermeulen played until he was 37 or 38. He is now a roaming coach within the South African coaching structures. He was valuable in the last world cup and has been a major influence on Jasper Wiese and other young players which has helped and accelerated their development and growth. Whitelock could do the exact same thing for NZ
10 Go to commentsBrett Excellent words… finally someone (other than DC) has noted that Hanigan is very hard and very good at doing what Backrow should do… his performance via the Drua sauna was quite daunting for those on the other side… very high tackle count… carries with good end result… constant threat to make a good 20-25 meters with those long legs… providing his mass effectively to crunching the Drua pack… Finally he is returning to quality form… way to much injury time over the last 2 years… smart-strong-competent in his skills… caught every lineout throw aimed at him and delivered clean pass to whoever was down below… and he worked hard for the whole 80 minutes… Ned has to be in the top 5 for backrow honors… He knows what is required as he has been there before…
20 Go to commentsI think Sam Whitelock should not touch a return with a bargepole. He went out on a high, playing in the RWC Final. He would be coming back into a team that will be weaker than last years, and might even be struggling to win games, especially against the Boks. Stay in France, enjoy another year with Pau, playing alongside his brother.
10 Go to commentsRyan Coxon has been very impressive considering he was signed by WF as injury cover whilst Uru has been a standout for QR, surprised neither of those mentioned
3 Go to commentsIt’s the massive value he brings with regard team culture/values, preparation, etc. Can’t buy that. I’m hoping to see the young locks get their chance in the big games though.
10 Go to commentsAll good, Gregor, except that you neglected to mention Sam Darry amongst that talented pool of locks. In fact, given Hannah’s inexperience and the fact that Holland won’t be eligible until next year, Lord and Darry might be the frontrunners this year, to join Barrett, Tuipoluto, Va’ii and possibly Whitelock. In fact there might be room for all of them if Barrett played 6 (like Ollie Chessum).
10 Go to commentsHis value is stabilizing the ship 20 - 40 minutes out from the final whistle plus his valuable experience to the underlings coming through.
10 Go to commentsWhat is criminal is she acts like it's no problem her actions have have cause the Italian player to lose her playing career, lose salary, if she did this in day to day life she would be in jail, she is a complete thug!!!
3 Go to commentsCorrect me if i’m wrong but the sadas have to win all games running into the finals yeh nah?
1 Go to commentsDon’t like Diamond but the maul is a joke, the sight of a choke tackle creating a maul then players in offside positions flopping on it killing the ball but then getting the put in? Banal.
3 Go to commentsHopefully Tabai Matson returns to Crusaders as head coach next season.
1 Go to commentsstorm in a teacup really. Penalty only so play on as the try was scored. Now the real question is: why was Maitland allowed to pass the ball off the floor? That is illegal but refs never pick it up.
1 Go to commentsWhen Beauden Barrett signed his contract before the 2023 RWC to play in Japan in 2024, it was NOT part of a sabbatical agreed to with NZRU prior to his signing, as was Ardie Savea and Sam Cane. Barrett changed his mind after the fact and negotiated his return to NZ Rugby and he was given permission to be eligible for All Black selection straight away once he signed a new contract to return to the Blues in 2025. Therefore, why would anyone argue against Whitelock returning to the All Blacks straight away after his season is France is finished if he signs a new contract with NZRU which includes a Super Rugby contract in 2025? If Barrett can, Whitelock should be allowed too.
10 Go to comments