Scrum-halves in their 30s don't usually start at a World Cup, so jockeying for No9 has started in Wales for France 2023
With rugby stuck in paralysis, many scribes and fans alike are casting their eyes forward to the next World Cup, something you expect Wayne Pivac and Wales are doing with the benefit of dizzying amounts of unplanned thinking time. France 2023 is still a distant speck in the distance and one position the Welsh appear well-stocked in at the moment is scrum-half. Dig a bit deep, though, and there is – statistically at least – likely to be movement in this key position.
Looking at all nine World Cups is instructive: the average age of a starting Wales scrum-half was 26 years and four months. It should also be added that not one of those players was in their thirties. Household names like Rob Howley, Dwayne Peel, Mike Phillips and Gareth Davies all wore the Welsh No9 shirt at the height of their powers – in their twenties.
When trying to pinpoint, Inspector Clouseau-style admittedly, how the trend affects the suitors to the jersey shirt for France in 2023, you would assuage that Rhys Webb – 35 two months after the jamboree in France ends, and Gareth Davies – 33 a month before the competition starts have the odds stacked against them. For all intents and purposes, they are fighting against the dying light.
Further evidence shows that at the recent World Cup in 2019, the oldest starting scrum-half in the knockout stages was Australia’s Will Genia at 31. That’s not to say it’s impossible. Ageing scrum-halves to have started at World Cups include Fabien Galthie and George Gregan, who were 34 in 2003 and 2007 respectively, while Agustin Pichot was a whipper-snapper at 33 in ’07 and Fourie du Preez 33 in 2015.
But you have to do some deep excavation to find exceptions to the rule. Test rugby, especially in its current guise, is a young man’s game. One man who had his share of thrills and spills at the World Cup with Wales was Robert Jones. He played in three tournaments, the first as a fresh-faced 21-year-old in 1987 in New Zealand where Wales finished in third place.
The Trebanos-born British and Irish Lion agreed that the gifted trio of Webb, Davies and Tomos Williams means the Welsh cup runneth over in the next 18 months. But by the time Pivac’s squad is crossing La Manche, these two elder statesmen could have departed and Wales would be down to a then 28-year-old Williams for the World Cup.
“If you look forward to 2023 the trio mentioned will still be desperate to play for Wales in France, especially as this season has passed them,” said Jones to RugbyPass. “But past the Lions next summer, the majority would say Tomos Williams is front runner for the next World Cup.”
Of the next wave to battle it out with Williams, the progress of Kieran Hardy with the Scarlets has been noted by rugby’s cognoscenti. Just 24, he has rough edges to soften, but after spending the season in the Championship with Jersey, he has raised eyebrows with his raw pace and try-scoring threat. Indeed, the pick of his eight tries this season was a 70-metre individual effort against Zebre that had shades of the prolific form Davies enjoyed in the 2013/14 season at a similar age.
“Kieran has looked impressive,” continued Jones. “He has grown in confidence as the season has progressed and has been putting his hand up. Stephen Jones would know him well from the Scarlets and he’s the right age to really flourish in France.
“I would imagine Wayne Pivac will be keen on bringing him in at some point to have a look at him. What further benefits him is the fact departing Scarlets scrum-half Aled Davies has made himself unavailable by heading for London with Saracens for three years, so he has moved up the pecking order.”
The other player Jones reckoned should not to discounted is Rhodri Williams. He has made such a telling impression at the Dragons this season, dovetailing with Sam Davies, and having just turned 27 he is becoming too polished to be discarded by Wales with a view to the next World Cup.
“When Rhodri first came on the scene he reminded me of his father Alan, who I played with at Swansea. He was a very rounded, intelligent scrum-half. In fact, Rhod seems to have a little bit more balance and control on his game than his dad. Being out in Bristol may have hampered him a little but since coming back to the Dragons, he has been playing really well. You can’t write guys like that off. The more responsibility he gets, the more mature he will get.”
In recent years, Welsh scrum-halves often come through in their mid-twenties. Howley got the lion’s share of his caps between 25 and 31. Phillips had to wait for Warren Gatland to come in and usurp Peel at 25 and Webb consequently had to play the waiting game with Phillips, so there is a trend.
“June 4 marks the 25th anniversary of the last Wales team to play in the old amateur era, a 1995 defeat to Ireland at the World Cup”
– @OwainJTJones delves back in time and learns what became of these Welsh stars of the past???https://t.co/zk63dqymKt
— RugbyPass (@RugbyPass) June 4, 2020
“Listen, the players these days are so professional and committed to the cause that you can’t write Rhys and Gareth off, but if you look a little deeper, there are players kicking their heels ready to step up,” continued Jones. “I watched Harry Randall quite a bit playing for England at U20 level but I know he’s qualified to play for Wales growing up in the Amman Valley. He’s small but very savvy. He puts his body on the line and is in a good place to learn with Bristol, playing with Welsh-qualified Callum Sheedy under Pat Lam.”
While Jones doesn’t know what Randall’s intentions are, the scrum-half is not captured by England and if the likes of Ross Moriarty, Nick Tompkins and Sam Moore are anything to go by, he could yet switch allegiance. Closer to home, much has been said about Harri Morgan, the 20-year-old who impressed as Wales’ starting No9 at last year’s U20s World Championships. “I’ve seen plenty of Harri at youth level and I know they think an awful lot of him at the Ospreys,” vouched Jones.
“He has had his injury problems in the last year, which has held him back, but he has got all the talent. What I would say is he is a very quiet individual and needs to improve his communication, which is a such a big part of any 9s game. With Rhys Webb coming back (to Ospreys) you’d expect him to be the main man, but you hope Harri will get more opportunities alongside Reuben Morgan-Williams who has just signed a new deal.”
Jones played in the amateur era where there were a glut of clubs and he does feel lack of opportunity does hold back Welsh No9s as there are only four regions. “There are only four starting spots, so it’s tricky. Playing at Bridgend, Swansea and Neath at the Premiership level is just not going to be a good enough standard. If these young guys can’t move the first-choice players you could see them choosing to look outside Wales to gain valuable playing experience, as Kieran did.”
In the short-term, though, Jones doesn’t see the Test level status-quo changing. “Along with Tomos, who I’ve mentioned, Gareth has scored some fantastic tries for Wales, especially the intercepts. There are parts of his game that could do with improvement, but at the elite end we have enough depth to switch players around depending on what we need.
“I’d say Rhys Webb is the most complete nine. He controls, he can run, his service is good and he is powerful. I also think his kicking game is pretty decent but the others have points of difference he hasn’t got. That is the beauty of rugby, really. In 2023, there could be a nine none of us have heard of yet, coming through as I guess I did in 1987.”
Comments on RugbyPass
In the 70s and 80s my club ran 5 Senior sides plus a Vets. Now it is 2 sides with an occasional 3rd team. Players have difficulty getitng to training now, not sure why and the commitment is not there. It seems to me more a problem of people applying themselves and not expecting to turn up and play whenever they want to.
5 Go to commentsROG’s contract is until 2027. The conversation about a successor to Galthie after RWC 2027 may be starting now. We can infer that Galthie’s reign stops then. He is throwing the Irish Coaching Job angle in because he is Irish. The next Irish coach MUST be Leo Cullen. As well as being the best coach available, coaching the vast majority of Irish Internationals week in week out, he has shown incredible skill at recruiting the best coaching staff for the job in hand. That was a failing in France. Cullen is a shrewd guy and if there is a need for foreign coaches underneath him he won’t hesitate. Rightly so. Ireland does need to start to bring Irish coaches through. Not just at the professional level but we need to train coaches to man new pathways for developing kids from schools/clubs up through the divisions.
6 Go to commentsNo Islam says it must rule where it stands Thus it is to be deleted from this planet Earth
18 Go to commentsThis team probably does not beat the ABs sadly Not sure if BPA will be available given his signing for Force but has to enter consideration. Very strong possibility of getting schooled by the AB props. Advantage AB. Rodda/Skelton would be a tasty locking combination - would love to see how they get on. Advantage Wallabies. Backrow a risk of getting out hustled and outmuscled by ABs. Will be interesting to see if the Blues feast on the Reds this weekend the way they did the Brumbies we are in big trouble at the breakdown. Great energy, running and defence but goalkicking/general kicking/passing quality in the halves bothers me enormously. SA may have won the World Cup for a lot of the tournament without a recognised goalkicker but Pollard in the final made a difference IMO. Injuries and retirements leave AB stocks a bit lighter but still stronger. 12 and 13 ABs shade it (Barret > Paisami, Ione = Ikitau, arguably) Interesting clash of styles on the wings - Corey Toole running around Caleb Clark and Caleb running over the top of Toole. Reece vs Koro probably the reverse. Pretty even IMO. 15s Kelleway = Love See advantage to ABs man for man, but we are not obviously getting slaughtered anywhere which makes a nice change. Think talent wise we are pretty even and if our cohesion and teamwork is better than the ABs then its just about doable.
11 Go to commentsCompletely agree. More friday night games would be a hit. RFU to make sure every club has a floodlit pitch. Club opens again Saturday to welcome touch / tag. Minis and youths on Sunday
5 Go to comments1.97m and 105Kg? Proportionately, probably skinnier than me at 1.82 and 82kilos. He won’t survive against the big guys at that weight.
55 Go to commentsThe value he brought to the crusaders as an assistant was equal to what he got out of being there. He reflected not only on the team culture but also the credit he attributed to the rugby community. Such experience shouldn’t be overlooked.
6 Go to commentsGood luck Aussie
11 Go to commentssmith at 9 / mounga 10 / laumape 12 / fainganuku 14
54 Go to commentsBar the injuries, it’s pretty much their top team …
2 Go to commentsDon’t disagree with much of this but it appears you forgot Rodda and Beale, who started at the Force on the weekend.
11 Go to commentsExcept for the injured Zach Gallagher this would be Saders best forward pack for the season. Blackadder needs to stay at 7, for all of Christies tackling he is not dominant and offers very little else. McNicholfullback is maybe a good option, Fihaki not really upto it, there was a reason Burke played there last year. Maybe Havilli to 2nd five McLeod to wing. Need a strong winger on 1 side to compliment Reece
1 Go to commentsTo me TJ is clearly the best 9 in the competition right now but he's also a proven player off the bench, there's few playmaking players who can come off the bench as calm and settled as he is, Beauden can, TJ can and I doubt any of the scrumhalves in contention can, if they want to experiment with new 9s I want him on the bench ready to step in if they crumble under the pressure. The Boks put their best front row on the bench, I'd like to see us take a similar approach, the Hurricanes have been doing similar things with players like Kirifi.
54 Go to commentsROG has better chance to win a WC if he starts training and make himself eligible as a player. He won’t make the Ireland squad but I reckon he may get close with Namibia (needs to improve his Afrikaans) or Portugal. Both sides had 1000:1 odds to win the RWC in 2023 which is an improvement on ROG’s odds of winning a RWC as a coach. Unlike Top 14 teams, national teams can’t go shopping and buy the best players - you work with the available talent pool and turn them into world beaters.
6 Go to commentsthat backline nope that backline is terrible why would you have sevu Reece when he’s not even top 5 wingers in the comp why have Blackadder when there’s better players no Scott barret isn’t an automatic the guy is more of a liability than anything why have him there when you have samipeni who’s far far better
54 Go to commentsAh, good to find you Nick. Agree with everything about Cale. So much to like about his game
55 Go to commentsNot too bad. Questions at 6, lock and HB for me. The ABs will be a lot stronger once Jordan and Roigard return. Also, work needs to be made to secure Frizzell back for next season and maybe also Mo’unga; they’re just wasting time playing in japan
54 Go to commentsOn the title, i wonder for many of those people it is a case something like a belief in working smarter, not harder?
1 Go to commentsForget Sotutu. One of those whose top level is Super Rugby. Id take a punt on Wallace Sititi Finau ahead of Glass body Blackadder.
54 Go to commentsI’m a pensioner so I've been around a bit. My opinion of SBW is he is an elite athlete and a great New Zealander and roll model. He has been to the top and knows what he's talking about. To all the negative comments regarding SBW the typical New Zealand way, cut that tall poppy down.
18 Go to comments