'I'm a big fan of his but is he better than Owen Farrell?' - RugbyPass Offload on whether Maro Itoje will captain the 2021 Lions
Last Saturday’s stellar performance of England’s Maro Itoje in their dominant Autumn Nations Cup win over Ireland has added fresh momentum to the campaign that the Saracens second row should captain the 2020 Lions in South Africa.
Itoje has long been talked about as a possible leader for the July trip to the home of the reigning world champions, but that speculation jumped a few levels on the back of his contribution to the 18-7 Twickenham win for the English over a very subdued Irish side last weekend.
However, RugbyPass Offload co-hosts Dylan Hartley, the ex-England captain, and Ryan Wilson, the Scotland flanker, have not been swayed by the recent praise for Itoje and the pair don’t see him leading Warren Gatland’s Lions squad in the southern hemisphere next year.
Asked if the latest efforts by Itoje with England had made him a certainty to succeed 2013 and 2017 tour captain Sam Warburton as Lions skipper in 2021, Hartley said: “No. I like Maro. He’s a hell of a player. He’s hitting his straps, he’s playing really well.
“But all this chat about him being a Lions captain and stuff like that, I suppose I have got to make some sort of comment on it. I have known Maro since 2016. I roomed with him as a young player and he is a great professional, great leader, but what you’re suggesting is he is better than Owen Farrell at captaining that England team.
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Ryan is fresh off another dust-up with Munster, Dylan gives us his take on England v Ireland, we add another couple of tourists to our squad and lots more?
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“There are so many things to consider. He has never captained an international team, so to chuck him into a Lions, it would help if he had national experience or club. I know at Junior World Cups he did that but it’s a slightly different beast to captaining the Lions team. You have got to remember who is coaching the Lions, Warren Gatland. Is there any sort of relationship there? Have they ever spoke? How do they communicate? There is so much more to consider.”
Taking his Itoje-for-Lions-captain cue from retired the ex-England and Northampton captain, Wilson, the current Glasgow skipper, chipped in: “On the captaincy stuff, it doesn’t matter what sort of player, whether you’re playing well or a brilliant player or a standout player, there is so much more to being a captain than what you see on the field. It’s everything off it.
“What I have learned the last four years at Glasgow is probably ten per cent is onfield, 90 per cent is off it and it’s all the crap that comes with it and it’s constant. The way I see Maro, I don’t know him personally but the way I have seen him in interviews and stuff, he is quite quiet.
“He is one of these guys who is the epitome of having a split personality of off the field he is this nice guy and then on the field, he becomes a completely different animal. He is out there, he is cheering above people’s heads, you see that little clip of him dancing and stuff.
“You see that of him on the field and it almost like an act. Then off the field, I see him timid, quiet, one of those guys who is in the background. I don’t know what he is like in the environment but it takes a hell of a lot more than being a good player on the field to be a captain. What I have noticed is everything off the field, that is the main thing.”
Hartley replied: “Without calling him timid, that is pretty good, he comes to life on the field. The one thing is he is really studious and I know Steve Borthwick invested a lot of time in coaching and developing his lineout ability.
“You have got to think if you’re going for a Lions tour or even an international game, you kind of want to delegate roles and if he is going to be a bang-on starter for the Lions, that means he will potentially be calling the lineout as well.
“Do you want him to go and be that competitive animal that he is and focus 100 per cent on himself, and then part of that is running that lineout and being in charge of that? As soon as you chuck in captaincy duties and management, it draws his attention and focus away from running that lineout.
“I don’t know. I’d just like to see it at international level first before you chuck him into that. Basically, I’m a big fan of his but is he better than Owen Farrell? At the moment, no, because Owen is very successful with what he is doing with England and if I had a Lions captain at the moment and a bang-on starter it would be Owen Farrell.”
Wilson added: “I reckon Maro Itoje is a locked-in Test starter, definitely. I reckon he is on there starting but as you said, you have got to have captained at international level to be going in doing that over at the Lions.
“Like what you say about Owen Farrell, everything that I have heard about him through guys that I have played with at Glasgow and Scotland who have played with him down at Sarries, he is one of these guys that demands that excellence all the time, at training, off-field, onfield.
“There is a big old job to be Lions captain but you have to bring everything together. You have got your little groups, your social groups and stuff like that when you come together, but the captain is at the front of that, he is the one driving a lot of it.
“You have got to be quite personable, someone who can talk to anyone. Again, I don’t know what Owen Farrell is like with that but I’d say leave Maro to control the lineout and do his job and be that impact player he is rather than put too much on his shoulders.”
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Comments on RugbyPass
Not sure exactly what went wrong for him at Glasgow but it’s pretty clear he ain’t Franco’s cup of tea. Suspect he would have been better served heading out of Scotland around the same time as Finn, Hoggy and Jonny!
1 Go to commentsBulls disrespected the Northampton supporters and the competition. Decide quickly, fully in or out.
24 Go to commentsI wonder if Parling was ever on England’s radar as a coach? Obviously Borthwick is a great lineout coach, but I do worry he might be taking on too much as both head coach and forwards coach.
1 Go to commentsJason Jenkins has one cap. When Etzebeth was his age he had over 80 caps. Experience matters. He will never amount to what Etzebeth has because he hasn’t been developed as an international player.
1 Go to commentsSays much about the player picking this gig over the easier and bigger rewards offered to him in Japan. Also says a lot about the state sanctioned tax benefits the Irish Revenue offers pro rugby players, with their ten highest earning years subject to an additional 40% tax relief and paid as a lump sum, in cash, at retirement. Certainly helps Leinster line up the financial ducks in a row to fund marquee signings like this!!! No other union anywhere in world rugby benefits from this kind of lucrative financial sponsorship from their government…
5 Go to commentsTrue Jordie could earn a lot more in Japan. But by choosing Leinster he’ll be playing with 1 of the best clubs in the world and can win a champions cup and URC…..
6 Go to commentsThanks for that Marshy, noticed you didn't say who is gonna win it. We know who ain't gonna win it - your Crusaders outfit. They've gone from having arguably the best Super Rugby first five ever, to having a clutch of rookies. Hurricanes all the way!
1 Go to commentsGeez you really have to question the NRLs ability to produce players of quality. Its pathetic. Dont the 25mil in Aus produce enough quality womens players. Sad.
1 Go to commentsBulls fan here, and agree 100% with the conclusion (and little else) of this article. SA sides should absolutely f-off from the champs cup until we get fair scheduling, equal support for travel arrangements and home semis. You know, like all the european teams get.
24 Go to commentsI’m yet to see why Grace would be an ABs contender. He’s pedestrian and lacks the dominance required of a top flight 8.
11 Go to commentsGee my Highlanders were terrible. They have gone backwards since the start of the season. The trouble began when we left Millar behind to prep as the 10 against the Brumbies and he was disconnected from the team that came back from Aussie. We rested Patchell for that game and we blew an avalanche of ball in good attacking positions in the 1st half. Against the Rebels we seem to of gone into a pod system with forwards hanging off from the breakdown leaving Fakatava to secure our ball!
80 Go to commentsPot Kettle, the English and French teams have done it for years.
24 Go to commentsHas virtually played every minute of previous games. Back row of Li Lo Willie , Grace and Blackadder would be the 1. Crusaders issue is a very average 1st 5 who cannot run. Kicking in general play is also below par They need to put Yong Kemara in. He must have so.e talent for them to bring him down from Waikato. Hoehepa would struggle to play in so.e club sided
11 Go to commentsI hope this a good thing making all these changes!
3 Go to commentsThe Hurricanes are good, especially with a decent coach now. However, let’s be real, the Crusaders and Chiefs are clearly a good degree weaker without the players they’ve lost overseas now. The Canes lost one player. It’s also why the aussie teams ‘seem’ to be stronger.
9 Go to commentsOr you could develop your own players instead of constantly taking from the SH competition and weakening it in the process? With all the player and financial resources these unions have compared to SH countries you’d think they could manage that, or is weakening the SH comps and their national sides an added bonus? Probably.
3 Go to commentsNot so fast Aaron, we might need you in black yet lol. God knows he’d be a lot less nerve-racking than hot and (very) cold players like Perofeta. It’s really a shame Reuben Love isn’t playing 10, we’ve got enough 15 options.
4 Go to commentsAnd those from the NH still seem to be puzzled (and delighted) why NZ’s depth isn’t what it once was. Over 600 NZ players overseas, that’s insane. This sort of deal is why Super Rugby coaches have admitted they struggle now to find enough quality to fill out their squads.
6 Go to commentsArticle intéressant ! La question devrait régulièrement se poser pour les jeunes français originaires de Nouvelle-Calédonie, Wallis-et-Futuna et de Polynésie entre la Nouvelle-Zélande et la Métropole… Difficile pour la fédération française de rugby de se positionner : soit le choix est fait de dénicher les jeunes talents et de les faire venir très tôt en Métropole, au risque de les déraciner, soit on prend le risque de se les faire “piller” par les All Blacks qui, telle une araignée, essaye de récupérer tous les talents des îles du Pacifique… À la France de se défendre en développant l’aura du XV de France et des clubs français dans ses collectivités d’Outre-mer !
3 Go to commentsWrong bay. He needs to come to the REAL BAY which is Bay Of Plenty and have a crack at making the Chiefs.
3 Go to comments