'I will not support any SA team again' - Fans divided over expanded Pro14 move that would make the Cheetahs homeless
The South African Rugby Union’s member vote on Tuesday confirmed that all four Super Rugby sides, the Bulls, Stormers, Sharks and Lions, are in favour of pursuing a move to Europe to join an expanded PRO14 competition.
The blockbuster move would forever change the landscape of professional rugby, with a clear power drain on the Southern Hemisphere creating a crowded European landscape.
The South African sides would bolster the ‘PRO’ competition comprised of Irish, Welsh, Scottish and Italian clubs, which has seen Dublin-based Leinster dominate over the last three seasons with three straight titles.
The announcement of the desired move garnered a divided reaction with equal parts of excitement and disappointment in both Europe and South Africa by fans.
The clear benefit of having the South African sides involved excited those who have desired a tougher regular season in the Pro14, with more competitive fixtures to add further intrigue to the season’s storylines. It was labelled a ‘class level-up’ for a tournament that will become ‘a hell of a lot harder to win’.
I think a PRO16 with the Big Four SA franchises would be a class level-up for the tournament.
— Three Red Kings (@threeredkings) September 29, 2020
One things for sure, as soon as the Lions, the Stormers, the Bulls and the Sharks come in the PRO16 is going to be a hell of a lot harder to win
— Rúaidhrí O'Connor (@RuaidhriOC) September 29, 2020
Great addition to the pro14 and will add serious competitiveness where it is lacking currently. Playing the biggest and best from SA will only benefit Irish clubs and our national team
— Daithín (@WaveyDaithin) September 29, 2020
On the opposite side, some South African Rugby supporters were concerned whether their own rugby will improve in a league where the stars are often not required to play from some of the stronger sides in the league. There is a perception that the Champions Cup is the greater priority of which it isn’t clear whether the South African teams would be a part of.
We going to a league where teams rest people for FINALS??? We playing in the Carabao Cup then! https://t.co/nmDBwPC94B
— Thala Msutu (@ThalaMsutu77) September 9, 2020
I honestly cannot see how it is going to beneficial for SA from a playing perspective. I think the quality of the Pro 14 week in week out is weaker than SR. Most of the big teams in the league place a bigger emphasis on the Champions Cup
— Matt Musindi (@MattMusindi) September 29, 2020
European fans were worried that the expanded Pro14 pushes the travel burden for players too far and the ‘locality’ of the competition would be lost, with away games out of reach for fans. One fan said that what people really want is a ‘British & Irish League’, merging the PRO14 with the Premiership.
Another fan feared that the PRO14 will inherit Super Rugby’s problems, importing a ‘failed system’ with conferences and too much travel. Another claimed it ‘feels like a mess’ that flying to South Africa will be normal but a Welsh side like the Dragons can’t go to Bristol to play the Bears.
The SA Super Rugby sides will add quality and revenue to the league but from a Welsh POV it still won’t generate much interest in the league. Still a lot apathy towards it here. What people really want to see is an British & Irish League. Games that fans can easily travel to.
— Jamie Phillips (@JNPhillips4) September 29, 2020
Not in favour of this pro16 idea. Too much travelling for the players
— Rory (@rory_cremin) September 29, 2020
Terrible, terrible move from Pro14 shipping a failed system from Super Rugby here. Nothing against the SA teams but the travel and conference set up holds little appeal.
— Colin McConaghie (@ColinMcConaghie) September 29, 2020
It’s still absolutely ridiculous that the Dragons driving half an hour down the road to Bristol for a game isn’t normal, yet flying 12 hours to South Africa is. The PRO14 or PRO16 or whatever just feels like a mess, to me
— Lucas Ward (@LucasWard_) September 29, 2020
Arguably the biggest loser from the suggested move is the Cheetahs franchise, who will be cut from the Pro14 along with the already insolvent Southern Kings, to make way for the four remaining South African Super Rugby franchises.
After being dropped from Super Rugby, the Cheetahs are now looking at a second expulsion from a professional competition in only a few short years.
One proud Cheetahs fan vowed to ‘not support any SA team again’ after hearing of the announcement, and will now back Connacht and Ireland in the club & international rugby. It was labelled ‘really really tough’ and ‘wrong’ for the franchise to be dumped after they committed their future to Europe.
Thanks to all the rugby friends made during the last 3 season in Pro14. Thanks for everything.
SARU decidee to cut the Cheetahs from Pro16
I will not support any SA team again or Springboks. Will support @connachtrugby and @IrishRugby from now.
Rugby in SA is dead in my eyes
— DJ Rossouw (@DjRossouw87) September 29, 2020
Axing the Cheetahs from the Pro14 was wrong. They took the risk, they made it work, they were a great addition to the tournament and to then allow those who turned their nose up at it to profit from the risk the Cheetahs made work because their sure thing blew up is wrong.
— Tim O'Connor (@timoconnorbl) September 29, 2020
Feel for the Cheetahs & their fans, always seem to be in the receiving end. Dropped from Super Rugby, forced to join Lions as the Cats in Super Rugby & now dropped from the Pro16, history of challenges. I get the financial aspect & not being 1 of the big 4, still tough #Cheetahs
— Graeme Peacock (@graemepeacock05) September 29, 2020
The Cheetahs are dumped again.
It’s a hell of a ride for any Free State Rugby fan.
Bulls, Sharks, Stormers and Lions to join the new PRO16.
Cheetahs to join a SANZAAR series comp.
— Jared Wright (@jaredwright17) September 29, 2020
Really really tough on the Cheetahs. #Pro16
— Harpin' On Rugby ? (@HarpinOnRugby) September 29, 2020
Cheetahs have been royally screwed… That said I’m very much looking forward to seeing the big SA franchises in the Pro16…
— Bern (@KeithClarke1) September 29, 2020
The implications of the move for both the Super Rugby and new PRO16 competitions won’t be known until after the fact, with both leagues taking on enormous risk divorcing and marrying the four South African sides at the same time.
From a Springboks and South African player welfare point of view, the move is a positive moving all the competition into a friendly time zone for the South African audience, while the players will do less travel than what they currently do in Super Rugby.
Director of Rugby Rassie Erasmus, who formerly coached Munster in the Pro14 league, highlighted some of the benefits as he sees it.
“The first benefit is that as a fan, you’ll be watching the game in the same time zone. You’ll watch it in the afternoon, have a braai (barbecue) and a few beers with mates. It makes a difference,” he said.
“For us as coaches and players, you can get on a plane, sleep on it and actually play the next day.”
Erasmus has expressed his feeling in the past that European rugby is much closer to test match rugby than Super Rugby, advocating it as an ideal place to pick his Springbok squad from, with good form in Europe translating well to international level.
Many high-profile Springboks are already contracted across Europe, from Top 14 teams in France, Premiership clubs in England, with a few in the PRO14 that may get the chance to play against their old teams.
Comments on RugbyPass
Great insight into the performance culture with Sarries and I predict Christie will be a fixture in the Scotland team now for some time to come. However, he is slightly missing his own point around Scotland “being soft” when he cites physicality examples in defence of that slight. The issue is much closer to the example he referenced around feeling off before a game but being told “it doesn’t matter, you can still play well” by Farrell. Until Scotland can get their psyche in that square, they will carry on folding under extreme pressure…
1 Go to comments> We are having to adapt, evolve and innovate more than when we were in Super Rugby where there was only really one style that everybody had to play to gain the most success. Have = able to? Interesting what that one style might be? I thought SA sides still had bad tours now, or at least bad schedule, months away? Those extra few hours flights have to be a killer though, no surprise to see their sides doing so badly at the start of the season each year. I wouldn’t enjoy that unfairness as a supporter.
4 Go to commentsThe problem for NZ, and Aus, is they ripped up the SR model and lost a massive chunk of revenue that hasn’t been replaced. Don’t forget SA clubs went North because they were left with no choice, Argy unceremoniously binned and Japan cast adrift. Now SR wasn’t perfect, far from it, but they’ve jumped into something without an effective plan, so far, to replace what they’ve lost. The biggest revenue potential now lies in Japan but it won’t be easy or quick to unlock, they are incredibly insular in culture as a nation. In the meantime, there is a serious time bomb sitting under SH rugby and if it happens then the current financial challenges will look like a picnic. IF the Boks follow their provincial teams and head north then it’s revenue meltdown. Not guaranteed to happen but the status quo is a very odd hybrid, with the Boks pointing one way and the clubs pointing the other way. And for as long as that remains then the threat is real.
36 Go to commentsI think Etene has had some good tuition, likely while at the Warriors to be a professional that helped his rugby jump, but he was certainly thrown in the deep end way too early. Should have arguably 20 less SR caps, and therefor a way better record that he does at his age, but his development would have been fast tracked by the need to satiate his signing away from league. Again, credit to him and others that he has done it so well. Easy to fall over under that pressure in the big leagues like that but he kept at it when I myself wasn’t sure he was good enough.
1 Go to commentsAwesome story. I wonder what a bigger American (SA) scene might have mean for Brex.
1 Go to comments“Johnny McNicholl and the Crusaders” save a Penney. Who has been in camp this week and showed them how to play?
5 Go to commentsSo, reports of the Crusaders’ demise / terminal decline are perhaps just - slightly - premature/exaggerated…? 🤔 Will we see a deep-dive into that by the estimable Rugbypass scribes, and maybe one or two mea culpas? Thought not.
5 Go to comments1. The Chiefs are rudderless without DMac, which enhances his AB chances 2. Chiefs pack are powderpuffs. The hard men arent there anymore 3. They had their golden title chance last yr and wont threaten this yr. Gone in second round of playoffs.
5 Go to commentsHonestly, why did you have to publish such a foolish article the day they play us? 😂
36 Go to comments> They are not standalone entities. They are linked to an amateur association which holds the FFR licence that allows the professional side to compete in the league. That’s a great rule. This looks like the chicken or egg professional scenario. How long is it going to be before the club can break even (if that is even a thing in French rugby)? If the locals aren’t into well it would be good to se them drop to amateur level (is it that far?). Hope they can reset from this level and be more practical, there will be a time when they can rebuild (if France has there setup right).
1 Go to commentsWhat about changing the ball? To something heavier and more pointed that bounces unpredictably. Not this almost round football used these days.
35 Go to commentsThis is the problem with conservative mindsets and phycology, and homogenous sports, everybody wants to be the same, use the i-win template. Athlete wise everyone has to have muscles and work at the gym to make themselves more likely to hold on that one tackle. Do those players even wonder if they are now more likely to be tackled by that player as a result of there “work”? Really though, too many questions, Jake. Is it better Jake? Yes, because you still have that rugby of ole that you talk about. Is it at the highest International level anymore? No, but you go to your club or checkout your representative side and still engage with that ‘beautiful game’. Could you also have a bit of that at the top if coaches encouraged there team to play and incentivized players like Damian McKenzie and Ange Capuozzo? Of course we could. Sadly Rugby doesn’t, or didn’t, really know what direction to go when professionalism came. Things like the state of northern pitches didn’t help. Over the last two or three decades I feel like I’ve been fortunate to have all that Jake wants. There was International quality Super Rugby to adore, then the next level below I could watch club mates, pulling 9 to 5s, take on the countries best in representative rugby. Rugby played with flair and not too much riding on the consequences. It was beautiful. That largely still exists today, but with the world of rugby not quite getting things right, the picture is now being painted in NZ that that level of rugby is not required in the “pathway” to Super Rugby or All Black rugby. You might wonder if NZR is right and the pathway shouldn’t include the ‘amateur’, but let me tell you, even though the NPC might be made up of people still having to pull 9-5s, we know these people still have dreams to get out of that, and aren’t likely to give them. They will be lost. That will put a real strain on the concept of whether “visceral thrill, derring-do and joyful abandon” type rugby will remain under the professional level here in NZ. I think at some point that can be eroded as well. If only wanting the best athlete’s at the top level wasn’t enough to lose that, shutting off the next group, or level, or rugby players from easy access to express and showcase themselves certainly will. That all comes back around to the same question of professionalism in rugby and whether it got things right, and rugby is better now. Maybe the answer is turning into a “no”?
35 Go to commentsWow, didn’t realise there was such apathy to URC in SA, or by Champions Cup teams. Just read Nick’s article on Crusaders, are Sharks a similar circumstance? I think SA rugby has been far more balanced than NZs, no?
4 Go to commentsBut here in Australia we were told Penney was another gun kiwi coach, for the Tahs…….and yet again it turned out the kiwi coach was completely useless. Another con job on Australian rugby. As was Robbie Deans, as was Dave Rennie. Both coaches dumped from NZ and promoted to Australia as our saviour. And the Tahs lap them up knowing they are second rate and knowing that under pressure when their short comings are exposed in Australia as well, that they will fall in below the largest most powerful province and choose second rate Tah players to save their jobs. As they do and exactly as Joe Schmidt will do. Gauranteed. Schmidt was dumped by NZ too. That’s why he went overseas. That why kiwi coaches take jobs in Australia, to try and prove they are not as bad as NZ thought they were. Then when they get found out they try and ingratiate themselves to NZ again by dragging Australian teams down with ridiculous selections and game plans. NZ rugby’s biggest problem is that it can’t yet transition from MCaw Cheatism. They just don’t know how to try and win on your merits. It is still always a contest to see how much cheating you can get away with. Without a cheating genius like McCaw, they are struggling. This I think is why my wise old mate in NZ thinks Robertson will struggle. The Crusaders are the nursery of McCaw Cheatism. Sean Fitzpatrick was probably the father of it. Robertson doesn’t know anything else but other countries have worked it out.
36 Go to commentsIt could be coincidental or prescient that the All Blacks most dominant period under Steve Hansen was when the Crusaders had their least successful period under Todd Blackadder and then the positions reversed when Razor took over the Crusaders.
36 Go to commentsDefinitely sound read everybodyexpects immediate results these days, I don't think any team would travel well at all having lost three of the most important game changers in the game,compiled with the massive injury list they are now carrying, good to see a different more in depth perspective of a coaches history.
3 Go to commentsSinckler is a really big loss for English rugby.
2 Go to commentsThanks Nick The loss of players to OS, injury and retirement is certainly not helping the Crusaders. Ditto the coach. IMO Penny is there to hold the fort and cop the flak until new players and a new coach come through,…and that's understood and accepted by Penny and the Crusaders hierarchy. I think though that what is happening with the Crusaders is an indicator of what is happening with the other NZ SRP teams…..and the other SRP teams for that matter. Not enough money. The money has come via the SR competition and it’s not there anymore. It's in France, Japan and England. Unless or until something is done to make SR more SELLABLE to the NZ/Australia Rugby market AND the world rugby market the $s to keep both the very best players and the next rung down won't be there. They will play away from NZ more and more. I think though that NZ will continue to produce the players and the coaches of sufficient strength for NZ to have the capacity to stay at the top. Whether they do stay at the top as an international team will depend upon whether the money flowing to SRP is somehow restored, or NZ teams play in the Japan comp, or NZ opts to pick from anywhere. As a follower of many sports I’d have to say that the organisation and promotion of Super Rugby has been for the last 20 years closest to the worst I’ve ever seen. This hasn't necessarily been caused by NZ, but it’s happened. Perhaps it can be fixed, perhaps not. The Crusaders are I think a symptom of this, not the cause
36 Go to commentsNo way. If you are trying to picture New Zealand rugby with an All Blacks mindset, there have been two factors instrumental to the decline of NZ rugby to date. Those are the horror that the Blues have become and, probably more so, the fixture that the Crusaders became. I don’t think it was healthy to have one team so dominant for so long, both for lack of proper representation of players from outside that environment and on the over reliance on players from within it. If you are another international side, like Ireland for example, sure. You can copy paste something succinct from one level to the next and experience a huge increase in standards, but ultimately you will not be maximizing it, which is what you need to perform to the level the ABs do. Added to that is the apathy that develops in the whole game as a result of one sides dominance. NZ, Super, and Championship rugby should all experience a boom as a result of things balancing out. That said, there is a lot of bad news happening in NZ rugby recently, and I’m not sure the game can be handled well enough here to postpone the always-there feeling of inevitable decline of rugby.
36 Go to commentsNo SA supporter miss Super Rugby - a product that is experiencing significant head wind in ANZ - the competition from rival codes are intense, match attendance figures are at a historical low and the negativity of commentators such as Kirwan and Wilson have accelerated the downward spiral in NZ. After the next RWC in 2027 sponsors will follow Qantas and start leaving in droves.
4 Go to comments