New series shows England ‘fighting for each other’ in U20 Championship quest

I wonder if you might just be carrying a small chip or two on those shoulders, maybe from your playing days in Ulster…?

Ps your expertise on the demographics of cities in Ireland is right up their with your kiwi georgraphy nous!

Maybe it’s a Kiwi coaching thing?😉

I think you’re right about Qld being outside RA control, which means it will be more difficult for RA to persist with its ‘Irish’ policy of talent distribution.

Of the players that are included, I guess its a no-brainer that Sela, Kpoku, & Tuipulotu are the ones to watch. I actually don’t think Kpoku has been especially great for the u20s, but obviously he’s been a key part of Racing 92’s season and is still only 19. Really hope he can rise to the occasion this summer - and returns to England before 2027. Sela seems underrated by most people. I suspect the fans banging the drum about Fasogbon don’t realise that Sela was picked ahead of him last year, despite being a year younger. He faces a struggle at senior level given the presence of Stuart, du Toit, and Griffin at but I still think he could be a real contender for the 2027 RWC squad. Obviously Tuipulotu is Tuipulotu. Next year is set to be a breakout year for him at Bath.

I would appreciate clarity on a couple of things though:

Where did I contradict myself?

Saying “Trophies matter. They matter a lot. But so does winning games. So does making finals.” is entirely compatible with ranking a team as the best - over an extended period - when they have won more games and made more finals than other comparable teams. It would be contradictory for me to say “Trophies matter. They matter a lot. But so does winning games. So does making finals.” and then completely ignore Leinster record of winning games and making finals.

“You can get frustrated and say I am not reading what you write, but when you quote me, then your first line is to say thats true (what I wrote), but by the end of the paragraph have stated something different, thats where you contradict yourself.”

What you said (that I think trophies matter) is true, in that I said “Trophies matter. They matter a lot. But so does winning games. So does making finals.”. Do you understand that Leinster won more games and made more finals than any other (URC-based) team did under the period under consideration?

“Pointless comparison on Blackburn and Tottenham to this discussion as no-one includes them on a list of the best club. I would say that Blackburns title season was better than anything Tottenham have done in the Premier League. My reference to the league was that the team who finished second over two seasons are not better than the two other teams who did win the league each time. One of the best - of course, but not the best, which is relevant to my point here about Leinster, not comparing teams who won 30 years ago against a team that never won.”

I really don’t understand why you would think that this is irrelevant. You seem to be saying that winning trophies is the only thing that matters when assessing who is the best, but doesn’t matter at all when assessing who is 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, etc.

“What I referred to in my Leinster wouldn’t say the were the best is your post earlier where you said Leinster were the best overall. You said that in two separate posts. Seasons dont work like that, they are individual. Unless the same team keeps winning then you can say they were the best over a period of time and group them, but thats not the case here.”

Well then we’ve just been talking at cross purposes. In that my position (that Leinster were the best team overall in 2022-2024) was pretty clear, and you just decided to respond to a different point (whether Leinster were the best team individually in particular years) essentially making the entire discussion completely pointless. I guess if you think that trophies are the only thing that matters then it makes sense to see the season as an individual event that culminates in a trophy (or not), whereas because I believe that trophies matter a lot, but that so does winning matches and making finals, it makes it easier for me to consider quality over an extended period.

It’s been steady decline for Ulster for some time. Their biggest problem is around the fans. They seem to think they are some under-achieving dynasty. They aren’t. They are a well supported club capable of the odd upset and routinely making the 1/4’s of the bigger comps every 2/3 seasons. Ravenhill would be a decent Friday night out but the warm, overpriced larger is often better than the stuff happening on the pitch.

Their marquee signings - which have tended to be excellent - have papered over the cracks. With their current budget they’ll have to back youth, no other option.

For me, I don’t think schools rugby in the North is on the same level as in the South. Ulster have the schools pathways and their own academies but not comparable talent.

Again, Kudos Leinster. Going straight to source with their investments.

As far as I know qld still control their player contracts and I doubt they would allow HMP to go to the Brumbies? I could be wrong

I was going on memory of that iconic Adidas commercial for the 2007 RWC? They are running through the hills and digging up turf and it tells you how many ABs came from each corner of the country.

You can get frustrated and say I am not reading what you write, but when you quote me, then your first line is to say thats true (what I wrote), but by the end of the paragraph have stated something different, thats where you contradict yourself. Just so we are clear, you said you would too on my statement that I would rather be a fan of a team that won a trophy over the three seasons, but end the paragraph saying you would rather be a fan of the team that won the most matches but didn’t win a trophy. Both cant be true. Thats one example of where you contradict yourself.

Pointless comparison on Blackburn and Tottenham to this discussion as no-one includes them on a list of the best club. I would say that Blackburns title season was better than anything Tottenham have done in the Premier League. My reference to the league was that the team who finished second over two seasons are not better than the two other teams who did win the league each time. One of the best - of course, but not the best, which is relevant to my point here about Leinster, not comparing teams who won 30 years ago against a team that never won.

What I referred to in my Leinster wouldn’t say the were the best is your post earlier where you said Leinster were the best overall. You said that in two separate posts. Seasons dont work like that, they are individual. Unless the same team keeps winning then you can say they were the best over a period of time and group them, but thats not the case here.

Will be following as a non Aussie hoping all their teams do well.

Will be following as a non Aussie hoping all their teams do well.