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LONG READ Who will win the Champions Cup quarter-finals? What the stats say

Who will win the Champions Cup quarter-finals? What the stats say
1 week ago

It is the great Moneyball debate. Are stats more trustworthy than impressions? As a baseball player coming fresh out of college, Oakland A’s general manager Billy Beane was a ‘five-tool guy’, the king of scouting impressions. He had all of the five essential characteristics the scouts looked for in a future superstar: he could get bat on ball consistently, he could hit with power for home runs, he had great running speed and endurance, he could field and he could throw the ball. Billy Beane was the prototypical ‘five-tool guy’.

But as a player Beane failed in the major leagues, and the subjective hunches of the scouts – all the ‘good body nonsense’ – were proved wrong. As a manager, Beane flipped the game on its head by turned to data-driven analytics to replace scouting intuition, and for the most part he was proven right.

Beane preferred scruffy, hard-nosed ’on-base percentage’ facts to the beauty of a pure swing. As baseball stats evolved, OBP replaced BA [hits per bat]. The point of batting was not to get out and force errors out of the pitcher, rather than to go down swinging, and missing in a blaze of glory. ‘Walks’ [when the batter advances to first base by leaving pitches outside the strike zone] were as valuable as direct hits. As the Billy Beane character, played by Hollywood actor Brad Pitt, in the eponymous movie declares: ‘He gets on base a lot. Do I care whether it’s a walk or a hit? No, I do not’.

Billy Beane and Brad Pitt
Brad Pitt played the role of Oakland A’s general manager Billy Beane (left) in the Moneyball movie (Photos by Brad Mangin/MLB Photos via Getty Images) and Pascal Le Segretain/Getty Images)

The Moneyball movie, produced back in 2011, was the start rather than the finish of the discussion, and it sparked an escalating debate about the value of sporting stats. The distrust of statistics has grown in proportion to its an ever-increasing dependence on raw data to dig out the truth behind appearances. Every major political organisation and pharmaceutical company now employs their own ‘think tank’ to find data which will justify the outcomes they want to see out in the real world.

In truth, the balance between British 19th Century prime minister Benjamin Disraeli’s famous assertion that ‘there are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics’, and the American statistician and ‘father of the quality movement’ W. Edwards Deming’s statement that without data, you’re just another person with an opinion’ is still being sought.

Rugby remains a very young professional sport, and the value of different data-sets is being constantly re-assessed. For example, one of the most stable metrics for measuring the physical speed and intensity of games has been ‘ball-in-play time’ [BIP] but more recently, it has been challenged by the ‘ball out-of-play’ metric, measuring the amount of time lost to stoppages and breaks in play. The truth is somewhere in that elusive space in between.

The match between Glasgow and Toulon will be a relentlessly hard-hitting affair, with both sides having the highest ratio of post-contact metres at the gain-line in the competition.

I have used some of the more relevant categories from recent praxis as tools to evaluate the upcoming quarter-finals in the European Champions Cup.

The two easiest games to forecast are the quarter-finals between URC league leaders Glasgow Warriors and the Top 14’s RC Toulon, and perennial Irish contenders Leinster and Sale Sharks from the Prem in England.

The match between Glasgow and Toulon will be a relentlessly hard-hitting affair, with both sides having the highest ratio of post-contact metres at the gain-line in the competition. The two teams lie first and second in the ruck retention stakes among the last eight clubs, with Glasgow setting 120 rucks per game to Toulon’s 98.

As things stand, the Warriors are slightly better on all statistical counts and their cohesion and home advantage [the invisible and unquantifiable factor] should see them through to the semi-finals.

Glasgow v Toulon stats

Leinster struggled to put away Edinburgh until the final quarter in the round-of-16, winning the last 25 minutes by 21 points to nil. That is the category which stands out in the upcoming encounter with Alex Sanderson’s Sale Sharks.

The Sharks have power in the collision on both attack and defence, enough power to trouble the Dublin province in the meat of the match, but the strength of the Leinster bench is just too obvious to ignore, even without towering Springbok giant RG Snyman.

Leinster v Sale stats

The two most difficult games to evaluate by far, are those between the twin giants of Top 14 rugby, Union Bordeaux-Bègles and Stade Toulousain, and the two clubs who currently stand head and shoulders above all others in the English Prem, Northampton Saints and Bath Rugby.

Although UBB edge most of the categories based on Champions Cup form in the current season, there are a number of them which are sufficiently close that they could turn around on the day.

If les rouges-et-noirs prove that they can defend well; if the scrum balance turns against the home side and if Toulouse can establish their big carrying forwards on the gain-line off Antoine Dupont, they could turn the tables on their great rivals. These are the spaces where the data stands back and the hunches take centre-stage.

Last season, UBB claimed the Champions Cup, overcoming Toulouse 35-18 in the semi-finals but Toulousain got its own back over Girondin in the Top 14 final eight weeks later. This season it is one game apiece in the league fixtures, with both clubs rotating their squads heavily for the two away games.

If UBB establish an early lead, their counter-attack will go from strength to strength and they will be too good to reel back in. But if the match is still close towards the end, the joker in the pack could be the goal-kicking accuracy of ‘deadeye dick’ Thomas Ramos [94%] over Bordeaux’s Maxime Lucu [80%].

<a href=Bordeaux v Toulouse stats” width=”6667″ height=”2683″ />

The real nailbiter of the round, at least according to the stats, could well prove to be the encounter at The Rec between Bath and Northampton.

Impressions are nowhere more important than here. Northampton hold a statistical edge in the scrum penalty-winning stats, but the impact of Thomas Du Toit off the bench was decisive in the last round against Saracens. That fact, coupled with the West Countrymen’s usual fourth-quarter dominance could outweigh the Saints’ greater attacking cohesion earlier in the game.

As with UBB versus Toulouse, if it comes down to the last kick of the game you would probably prefer to be in the boots of Finn Russell [87%] rather than Fin Smith [60%].

Northampton v Bath stats

It was John Henry, the owner of the long-suffering Boston Red Sox, and now principal owner of Liverpool Football Club in the Premier League, who offered to give Billy Beane a crack at the big time. It didn’t work out with the Oakland A’s manager, but it did with Beane’s spiritual mentor, ‘sabermetrician’ Bill James. Only one year after the publication of Michael Lewis’ Moneyball, and two short seasons after Henry hired James, the Red Sox broke the 86 year-old ‘curse of the Bambino’ and won the 2004 MLB World Series.

As a young sport of only 30 years standing, professional rugby is in its infancy and the world of analysis within it is still evolving. Metrics are adopted and discarded with alarming frequency, but the data itself is already far more refined and detailed than it was even 10 years ago. Impressions and intuitions still have their place, but they have become primarily important as they are applied to a pre-existing world of data, and we are entering the remorseless, unflinching age of facts John Henry described:

“To the extent you can eliminate both [beliefs and biases] and replace them with data, you gain a clear advantage. Many people think they are smarter than others in the stock market and that the market itself has no intrinsic intelligence – as if it’s inert. Many people think they are smarter than others in baseball and that the game on the field is simply what they think it is through their set of images/beliefs. Actual data from the market means more than individual’s perception/belief. The same is true in baseball.”

As Billy Beane adds in Michael Lewis’ book, “Know exactly what every player in baseball is worth to you. You can put a dollar figure on it.” Substitute ‘metric’ for ‘player’ and you have the new golden age of rugby analysis, right there before your very eyes.

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Comments

108 Comments
T
TL 1 day ago

Do you think the more complex the game, the more simple rules of thumb from experts perform better against complex modeling? Complex models excellent in simple games (e.g. computers winning chess) complex environments complex models perform comparatively poorly/ average (predicting flu spread/ recidivism). This is Gerd Gigerenzer’s thesis, which based on the articles I’ve read is very compelling. I wonder where predicting rugby sits in the complex vs simple/ big vs small world equation. And no doubt for a coach vs punter the need of stats are completely different, picking a winner vs building culture different trades offs over time, with the coach’s task being far more complex. Would love to know your thoughts Nick. I know there is a pendulum swing against data/ monitoring in professions like midwifery where it can lead to more detrimental and unnecessary medical intervention. I suppose the knowing of knowing, aka wisdom is always the ultimate goal..

R
Rugby3 3 days ago

How is a moment of individual brilliance, or two or more even, which can turn a game, accounted for in stats ?


Is this a sign rugby and other sports have become far too regimented to induce romance ?

It sure feels like it in rugby sometimes.

N
NoLongerARuck 7 days ago

Football and cricket have truly gone crazy on stats. IPL cricket and T20 cricket is analysed to the most crazy extent informing selection, strategy in different phases, field placings, bowler selections, bowling plans, hitting plans and batting plans. If you were looking at raw statistics the Proteas should have won the T20 world cup at a canter after their domination going into the semi. They choked again under pressure and were knocked out. Looking at stats again how many KPIs did Northampton win when they met Leinster in the semi last season? Probably none but they still won. Crystal Palace should never have won the FA cup based on the stats but they did and just last night Barca went down to Athletico, the KPIS were well in their favour but fortune favours the brave and sometimes and underdog has his day. When Munster and Glasgow claimed URC titles in South Africa few would have put money on them given the travel factor, the stats and the crazy home support. Stats are great but the reason why we watch is because you just never know what might happen.

N
NB 6 days ago

Stats are great but the reason why we watch is because you just never know what might happen.

That’s true ofc but IMO the art of analysis is determining what categories of info, or KPIs really matter from game to game. They vary according to the opponent and the conditions.

D
Derek Murray 7 days ago

Enjoyed this. I enjoyed the film too although, upon a second watching, I realised the film wouldn’t be much without Pitt in the lead role. He carried it. His best performance. No stats to back that up, though.


The issue with stats is clear in the Saints/Bath table where the scrum penalties are a big factor for Saints, when we all know the likely factor that gets Bath over the line is the scrum.

N
NB 6 days ago

It is a great movie and an honest attempt to reproduce the spirit of the book. It does also faithfully portray the kind of entrenched opposition you will encounter when introducing new ideas…

E
EM 7 days ago

Great article as always. Where do you get your data out of interest? Is there anything available publicly? Always wondered if it's possible to go full nerd and do some amateur analysis but when I've looked it up previously doesn't seem to be anything out there

N
NB 6 days ago

It’s a mix between [1] stuff you have to pay for from an industry leading site, [2] stuff I receive from other analysts, and [3] my own database, where I use categories you cannot get elsewhere.


It might be possible for someone to keep track of one particular league with the appropriate analysis tools available [you can get good open-source ones] but it wd be all-consuming to keep track of all the rugby played around the world!


https://longomatch.com/en/ is one place to start.

C
Carlos 8 days ago

I stopped reading at the Pharma think tank statement. You can’t be further from reality. Shame on you for stating something without proper expertise or knowledge. Stick to rugby, you are brilliant at it.


If you want to know more about this, let’s discuss privately.

R
Rodney Ford 6 days ago

Who tf appointed you resident expert?

N
NB 7 days ago

So do you think organisations do publish studies which contradict the claims they make for their products or philosophies?

E
Ed the Duck 8 days ago

I’d be interested to know why he believes that pharma’s “cherry pick”?


That’s potentially a very dangerous statement to make…

U
Utiku Old Boy 8 days ago

There is no dispute to the fact.

B
Bazzallina 8 days ago

Ramos 94% jeez Louise now that’s a kicker

N
NB 7 days ago

Never looks like he’s going to miss does he Bazz?

P
PMcD 8 days ago

Ramos is an absolute kicking machine.


Not only is it 94% success rate, the amount of time they are dead centre kicks is also quite impressive.

P
PMcD 8 days ago

Bath vs Saints will be close.


Davison could be a big loss for Saints in this one, which will play into Bath’s hands, along with home advantage.


On paper, Saints should be the slight favourites but Bath have a great record at The Rec (which Saints destroyed recently) and bar the last game, it’s usually a 1 or 2 point game between these sides, so should be close.

N
NB 7 days ago

I am beginning to lean towards Bath in that one P.

P
PMcD 8 days ago

It’s a real shame UBB vs Toulouse is not the final, they are probably the two best teams in the tournament and is like predicting the outcome of two heavy juggernauts colliding at high speed.


On paper it does feel like UBB are on the rise but I just have a feeling there is a right to wrong with Toulouse, and they may just pull out a bit of a surprise and they will need to use their big forwards to control this game.

J
Jfp123 7 days ago

I don’t know, I’m inclined to think it’s Toulouse who are on the rise compared with last year. Then they were without Dupont and a host of other key players due to injury. Some fantastic players like Mallia and Capuozzo are injured at the moment and Pita Akhi has left for NZ and Menoncello hasn’t arrived yet, but on the whole I think Toulouse are stronger now than in 2025.


UBB are obviously a brilliant team, but I suspect they sometimes attract exaggerated hyperbole due to their attacking style - some fans don’t seem very much interested in forwards or subtlety.

N
NB 7 days ago

Are th Toulousain forwards strong enough to do it? I guess we will find out. Lucu/Jalibert vs. Dupont/Ntamack is a mouthwatering prospect. The two best halback combos in France going head to head.


Hoem advantage is one of the aspects which remain stubbonly unquantifiable. Why are the ABs unbeatable at Eden Park?? It also matters greatly in matches between two French teams…

P
PMcD 8 days ago

I think Leinster will rack up a cricket score with Sale - if Sale stop Leinster scoring 50 points they will have done well.

N
NB 7 days ago

Tough place to go with Leinster getting so many top players back now…

E
Ed the Duck 8 days ago

Yep, Sale have lost their bite recently…

P
PMcD 8 days ago

Glasgow vs Toulon will be an interesting game.


Toulon leverage their forwards a little more, whereas Glasgow tends to create the damage through their backs.


The Toulon scrum was very good in the early rounds, with the all action back row, whereas the Glasgow back line are pretty special.


I think the result could be pretty tight but like the Toulouse game, I think the French teams tend to build a lead but the final quarter points confirms how fit Glasgow are and they keep coming at you for the full 80 mins.

N
NB 7 days ago

I think Toulon will struggle to stick with Glasgow for 80 minutes P. Their best F/R prob Gros-Baubigny-Sinckler but I don’t see them getting the best of McBeth-Hiddleston-Fagerson. Hiddleston a big hooker at 120 k’s!

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