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In this RugbyPass All Access special edition of Spirit of Rugby, Jim Hamilton is joined by 2009 series winners John Smit and Pierre Spies – brought to you in partnership with The Famous Grouse.
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Both players relived the ’09 series victory for South Africa, providing an insight into what the legendary second Test was like. That Test has been remembered as one of the most brutal and dramatic matches ever played, and Smit shared his unique perspective as captain of the Springboks.
Also in this episode, the pair discuss what the spirit of rugby means to them, the message that they would send to this Springboks team ahead of the series, as well as the former No8 Spies’ life after rugby.
On the second Test, Smit said: “It’s got to be one of my most memorable Test matches. We knew they had a sniff and we knew they were going to come in quite confident and so our whole plan was to start even faster. To accelerate the pace, we spent time on placing the ball further out, cleaning rucks. We just wanted Fourie [du Preez] to get the ball into the fly-half’s hands all the time. So all of that went absolutely out of the window when we lost Schalk [Burger] in the first minute. It was like we couldn’t get out of this lull of playing slow to try and get back to 15 men.
“I got reasonably aggressive at half-time and we had to shake a few cages and really get the message across. We had to restart that Test at half-time, to refocus on how we wanted to play and then make some changes to re-jig things up and try to get ourselves a result in the second Test. I can’t tell you how much of a memorable rollercoaster that was for me as the leader of that pack.”
“It had a lot of Fs in it, and it was pretty much ‘Wake the F up. Let’s get back to playing.'”
Spies said: “From the start of that Test match we could see we were in for something different today. This is the amazing thing about sport because really it’s just about how you finish.
“We had a strong bench coming on, guys making a massive impact in Heinrich Brussow and Morne Steyn, who kicked the winning kick at the end. So it was an immense, immense Test with so many moments, significant moments that really swung the game in different directions. It was like a ping pong match up until the last minute when Morne Steyn kicked that last penalty.”
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When asked what the spirit of rugby means to him, Spies said: “The spirit of rugby in South Africa carries a powerful symbol of unity for the country. It brings us together under one flag and under one purpose. It really has played a huge role in our country. Across the world the spirit of rugby, the camaraderie and respect is the big thing. You can be in such a huge battle and combat and then straight after every match there is a camaraderie and mutual respect of the game and an understanding of what has just taken place and what is the bigger picture. So the sport is amazing and that is why we must work hard to get more and more people involved in it.”
Smit passed this message on to the current Springboks squad: “This is not a normal Test match, this is not a normal series. This is something that happens every twelve years and you won’t get a second chance. That message came out loud an clear to us by the ’97 squad under Teich [Gary Teichmann] and when we got that message, the impetus was massive. So my message to them would be: ‘You’ve got one shot, you’ve got to take it.'”
Comments on RugbyPass
Not good to hear Ulster described as “financially troubled”. Did not think it was getting to that level. I would hope the Irish system of spreading players of talent away from Leinster would kick in now. Better to have a Leinster fringe player with Ulster or Connacht, then getting only a few games a season in Dublin. 10, for example, would seem to be a case for spreading the talent. I would not be at all adverse to a SA man coming in as head coach/DR. Ludeke is worth trying. Certainly got a long and impressive coaching career at this level…..149 games in SR, then Japan, 30 years experience. And Ulster’s ledger of successful SA coaches and players is on the positive side. Is talk of Ruan Pienaar interested in coming back as a coach…..could be a good combination with Ludeke. And Pienaar and family would have no settling in to do, one would judge. He loved life in Ulster when there, by all reports.
1 Go to commentsSome thoughts to consider here, Sam. Thanks
2 Go to commentsI think he is right, SBW is respected in RSA. The guy who never stood up is a worm. Sseems lots of NZ SBW hate, you do the crime do the time.
11 Go to commentsAfter missing the curfew, the player was simply too “Shagged” to stand up.
11 Go to commentsVernier is probably the best 12 in the world though she has some English competition these days . I am nervous for England because it is unpredictable France and who knows which team will turn up, but they have not yet shown anything that should worry England, Saturday could be a different day. I would be more confident against the BFs.
1 Go to commentsWhat a difference Rodda and Carter made. Rodda has been out for ages but he is really the only world class lock in Australian rugby. Him, Carter and Beale made a huge difference on the weekend. If only they had a few decent props they’d be a much more dangerous team. Hamish Stewart was excellent last week as well. His carrying has improved significantly and has to be next in line after Paisami at 12 for the Wallabies. He’ll benefit hugely with Beale at fullback, there’s just no better communicator in Australian rugby than him and his experience will make a huge difference for the Force. No one sees space like Beale and he’s still sharp. I can see Force making a late charge into the top 8 if they can get some consistency.
2 Go to commentsRodda will be a walk up starter at lock. Frost if you analyse his dominance has little impact and he’s a long way from being physical enough, especially when you compare to Rodda and the work he does. He was quite poor at the World Cup in his lack of physicality. Between Rodda and Skelton we would have locks who can dominate the breakdown and in contact. Frost is maybe next but Schmidt might go for a more physical lock who does their core work better like Ryan or LSL. Swain is no chance unless there’s a load of injuries. Pollard hasn’t got the scrum ability yet to be considered. Nasser dominated him when they went toe to toe and really showed him up. Picking Skelton effects who can play 6 and 8. Ideally Valetini would play 6 as that’s his best position and Wilson at 8 but that’s not ideal for lineout success. Cale isn’t physical enough yet in contact and defence but is the best backrow lineout jumper followed by Wright, Hanigan and Swinton so unfortunately Valetini probably will start at 8 with Wright or Hanigan at 6. Wilson on the bench, he’s got too much quality not to be in the squad. Paisami is leading the way at 12 but Hamish Stewart is playing extremely well also and his ball carrying has improved significantly. Beale is also another option based on the weekend. Beale is class but he’s also the best communicator of any Australian backline player and that can’t be underestimated, he’ll be in the mix.
8 Go to commentsWhy do people keep on picking Ardie at 7 when he's a ball in hand 8? A modern 7 is the lead tackler and ruck clearer which isn't his strength.
14 Go to commentsSly dig there at Ireland’s propensity to back a non-Irish coach. Must really want it. I’m not sure I like ROG very much. Comes off as unpleasant. But he’d gain my respect if he took a number 7 ranked team and turned them into WC winners. Not even back-to-back. Argentina? Scotland? Or how about Wales? France would be too easy, no?
1 Go to commentsA bit of sensationalism, but surprised by the comments about SBW. I’ve always thought of him as a pretty authentic person. There is nothing worse than working with a colleague you’ve seen straight through.
11 Go to comments100% agree with your comment about Touch. I’ve been playing it competitively since Covid. It’s on a Wednesday night after work. It means the weekend is free for time with my family.
2 Go to commentsRodda back is massively important for the Wallabies. Kaitu at hooker important too coz he was very good a few years ago.
2 Go to commentsThe pink cabous might be eligible this year and the Boks don’t need him
8 Go to commentsNasser and kaitu are options for hooker. Especially Nasser. You forgot Rodda who touch wood will be fit at test time and if fit he’s number one. Great partner for the great Skelton and Oz best lineout caller. Third best lock is LSL whom I’d be inclined to sub on for Skelton around 60 minutes. Probably start valetini at 8 because I like a big body back there. Cale should play 6 at the brumbies. For Wallabies definitely cale in the squad but as an apprentice. Dunno who starts at 6 seru wright Swinton hanigan with Will Harris and Harry Wilson not far away. Seru and Swinton my front runners but Swinton is going. Still if we don’t cap seru then Fiji must coz they need his lineout skills and easily compensate for his lack of weight
8 Go to commentsYeah but who was it?
11 Go to commentsThink you might have written this just before the Brumbies got thrashed last weekend
8 Go to commentsI really do believe that Billy Proctor should be selected at least in the larger squad but also it would be my choice at 13, much more a center than Ioane who can still play at wing. Roigard if fit should play, otherwise it should be Perenara or Christie. Also, Iose could deserve a spot at blindside. Of course, being a Canes supporter I’m biased but I really believe that at least Billy P is deserving a chance and being Holland one of the Selectors, I’m having a little hope he could grab it.
14 Go to commentsI would not play Swinton I’d pick Wright or Hanigan. The rest are decent starters, but can’t agree on any subs except Tupou. My take on the subs: Gibbon, Ueslese, Tupou, LSL, Wilson, White, Will Harrison, and Petaia.
8 Go to commentsSBW the biggest moron to pull on a black jersey a park footy player at best
11 Go to commentsSBW is fast becoming a laughing stock, his misplaced comments & lack of insight Is actually pretty sad.
11 Go to comments