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'Billy is his main No8': The Rugby Pod on why Vunipola is still the man for Eddie Jones' England
The Rugby Pod show co-hosts Andy Goode and Jim Hamilton have jumped to the defence of Billy Vunipola amid claims that he is no longer the massive influence on England that he was previously. England’s style of play in their Autumn Nations Cup wins over Georgia, Ireland and Wales, along with last month’s Six Nations title win in Italy, have been taken to task for being limited in attack.
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No8 Vunipola, so often the main England ball carrier in the Eddie Jones era, has been singled out for not being as generally prominent. However, the stats don’t suggest he has fallen off a cliff.
He was still the busiest England ball carrier in the pack on the last three Saturdays, making 50 metres off 14 carries against Georgia, 29 metres off seven carries versus Ireland and then a whopping 83 metres from 17 carries against Wales.
The perceived problem is that other pack ball carriers are coming close to his figures. For instance, Jack Willis managed 47 metres from ten carries in round one, Jamie George 24 metres from four round two carries, and Sam Underhill chipped in with 59 metres from eight carries in last weekend’s round three.
Vunipola’s form has provided food for thought, but ex-England out-half Goode doesn’t think criticism of the No8 is acceptable given the team’s changed strategy in recent weeks under Jones.
'It was not that long ago that Eddie Jones’ side were utterly reliant on the big ball-carrying No 8, to the point that he had no natural replacement in the side.'
But that has changed, writes @alexshawsport 👨💻https://t.co/UjFIBga3Cz
— RugbyPass (@RugbyPass) November 29, 2020
“Billy used to be such a standout performer because he was the main ball carrier, he was the only guy doing it,” said Goode. “Now England have got such a balance to their forward pack. You saw Mako (Vunipola) at the weekend carrying really well again. Underhill carries well, he made the break that effectively led to Henry Slade’s try off Maro’s inside ball. Maro’s carrying.
“All these boys are going as good a job as Billy is. Billy is probably doing it a bit better at times but England aren’t as reliant getting over the gain line as they used to be when Billy was the go-to man. There is more of a balance to the actual ball carry from the front five.
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“Jamie George another one, Kyle Sinckler can carry. They’re all proper big carriers that are sharing the workload. Maybe Eddie Jones was a bit of a genius when he put Tom Curry to No8 thinking one day we’re going to have all these back row choices and Billy will be under pressure. But Billy is his main No8. It will take something pretty astonishing for Eddie Jones not to pick Billy Vunipola at No8 this weekend against France and moving forward into the Six Nations.
“I don’t think he is under pressure. People are looking at him because maybe he isn’t playing at the level he was so dominant a couple of years ago. He has had a couple of arm breaks but maybe it’s because Underhill and Curry and other ball carriers are so phenomenal now.”
Co-host Hamilton, the ex-Scotland lock who was a teammate of Vunipola at Saracens, added about the England No8: “One thing I have noticed, and I don’t know whether it is a respect thing because he is related Taulupe Faletau, when he plays against him he is always a little bit off.
“But Billy is a world-class player so we are judging Billy on what Billy was a couple of years ago and defensively teams are so much better in the last year. Look at Ireland against Georgia, they were getting absolutely smashed around the nine/ten channel.
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“Billy is running into those channels where in years gone by you made yards all the time just because you are Billy Vunipola – you have got the size, you have got a slight step…. was Billy at the level last Saturday he has been at? No.
“But you look at Curry, look at Underhill, what they bring is a different dimension to the game. Billy is there to carry the ball, to get England over the gain line, to get them on the front foot, but arguably England are playing a different way as well so it doesn’t suit him… the way the game is now it’s suited to defenders and breakdown. They are the players who are standing out.”
Top-quality chat from former French International and Jim's new English teacher @BenjaminKayser on this week's episode👌
Have a listen 🎧
iTunes – https://t.co/jxbVv4Pmou
Acast – https://t.co/w8PlocwkND pic.twitter.com/MjhtnZJ7RP— The Rugby Pod (@TheRugbyPod) December 1, 2020
Comments on RugbyPass
The World Cup has to be the gold standard, line in the sand. 113 teams compete for what is the opportunity to make the pool stages, and then the knockout games for the trophy. The concept is sound. This must have been the rationale when the World Cup was created, surely? But I’m all for Looking forward and finding new ways for the SH to dominate the NH into the future. The autumn series needs a change up. Let’s start by having the NH teams come south every odd year for the Autumn/Spring series games?
1 Go to commentsWhat’ll happen when the AI models of the future go back in time and try to destroy the AI models of the past standing in their way of certain victory?
41 Go to commentsThanks, Nick. We (Seanny Maloney, Brett and I) just discussed Charlie as a potential Wallaby No 8, and wondered if he has truly realised how big he is in contact (and whether he can add 5 kg w/o slowing down). Your scouting report confirms our suspicions he has the materiel. No one knows if he has the mentality (as Johann van Graan said this week about CJ, Duane and Alfie B) to carry 10-15 times a game.
57 Go to commentsHe would be a great player for the Stormers, Dobbo should approach the guy.
3 Go to commentsGood article. A few years back when he was playing for the Cheetahs, he was a quiet standout for exactly the seasons stated here. I occasionally get to see his games in the UK, and he has become a more complete player and in many ways like an Irish player. His work ethic is so suitable to the Leinster game. I wonder if Rassie would have him listed somewhere.
3 Go to commentsResults probably skewed by the fact that a few clubs have foreign fly halves in their 30s, but most teams have young English scrum halves. Results also likely to be skewed by the fact that many teams rely on centres and fullbacks to provide depth at 10, whereas they will need to stock a large number of specialist backup 9s.
1 Go to commentsI really get the sense that when all is said and done, the path of least resistance will end up being a merger of Wasps & Worcester that essentially kills the Worcester Warriors brand and sees Wasps permanently playing at Sixways. I’m not saying that’s what should happen or what I want to happen. I just think it’s the easiest rout to take and therefore, will be what happens. Wasps will definitely return to play first, and I suppose it all depends on if they can find support at Sixways. If people turn up and support Wasps in that community, at that ground, I bet they drop the Sevenoaks plan and just remain at Sixways. Under the radar but not totally unrelated, it looks as though London Irish are going to be brought back from the dead by a German consortium and look set to return, likely to the remade Championship. It’s set to have 12 clubs next season with 14 in 2025/26, what do you want to bet those extra 2 are Wasps and London Irish?
3 Go to commentsThe shoulder is a “joint” with multiple bones. You don’t “fracture” a shoulder, you fracture any one or more of the bones that make up a shoulder.
2 Go to commentsOh dear, bones too suspect to continue?
2 Go to commentsBold headline considering the Canes and Blues are 1 and 2 and the Brumbies were soundly beaten by the Chiefs and Blues. Biggest surprise is Rebels 4 Crusaders 12 - no one saw that coming. If Aus are improving that’s great 👍
1 Go to commentsAnna, You are right, we need to have patience whilst the others catch up to England and France. Also it is the PWR that has been the game changer for England. the RFU put money into that initially at the expense of the Red Roses. I was sceptical at first but it has paid off in spades.
1 Go to commentsI think Matt Proctor became a 1 test AB in the same fixture. Cameron is quality and has been great this season, can’t believe’s he only 27. Realistically how would he not be selected for ABs squad this year. Only Dmac is ahead of him as a specialist 10. With Jordan out, it will come down to where and when Beauden Barrett slots back in, and where they want to play Ruben Love. Cameron seems an absolute lock in for the wider squad though. Added benefit of TJ-Cameron-Jordie combination at 9, 10, 11 too.
1 Go to commentsFarcical, to what end would someone want to pay to keep this thing going.
1 Go to commentsHavili, our best 12 by a mile, will be in the squad, if he stays fit. JB is the most overrated AB in the last 50 years.
61 Go to commentsWe had during the week twilight footy, twilight cricket, tw golf plus there was the athletics club. Then the weekend was rugby 15s plus the net ball, really busy club scene back then but so much has changed and rugby has suffered. And it was all about changing lifestyles.
6 Go to commentsIn the 70s and 80s my club ran 5 Senior sides plus a Vets. Now it is 2 sides with an occasional 3rd team. Players have difficulty getting to training now, not sure why and the commitment is not there. It seems to me more a problem of people applying themselves and not expecting to turn up and play whenever they want to.
6 Go to commentsROG’s contract is until 2027. The conversation about a successor to Galthie after RWC 2027 may be starting now. We can infer that Galthie’s reign stops then. He is throwing the Irish Coaching Job angle in because he is Irish. The next Irish coach MUST be Leo Cullen. As well as being the best coach available, coaching the vast majority of Irish Internationals week in week out, he has shown incredible skill at recruiting the best coaching staff for the job in hand. That was a failing in France. Cullen is a shrewd guy and if there is a need for foreign coaches underneath him he won’t hesitate. Rightly so. Ireland does need to start to bring Irish coaches through. Not just at the professional level but we need to train coaches to man new pathways for developing kids from schools/clubs up through the divisions.
8 Go to commentsNo Islam says it must rule where it stands Thus it is to be deleted from this planet Earth
19 Go to commentsThis team probably does not beat the ABs sadly Not sure if BPA will be available given his signing for Force but has to enter consideration. Very strong possibility of getting schooled by the AB props. Advantage AB. Rodda/Skelton would be a tasty locking combination - would love to see how they get on. Advantage Wallabies. Backrow a risk of getting out hustled and outmuscled by ABs. Will be interesting to see if the Blues feast on the Reds this weekend the way they did the Brumbies we are in big trouble at the breakdown. Great energy, running and defence but goalkicking/general kicking/passing quality in the halves bothers me enormously. SA may have won the World Cup for a lot of the tournament without a recognised goalkicker but Pollard in the final made a difference IMO. Injuries and retirements leave AB stocks a bit lighter but still stronger. 12 and 13 ABs shade it (Barret > Paisami, Ione = Ikitau, arguably) Interesting clash of styles on the wings - Corey Toole running around Caleb Clark and Caleb running over the top of Toole. Reece vs Koro probably the reverse. Pretty even IMO. 15s Kelleway = Love See advantage to ABs man for man, but we are not obviously getting slaughtered anywhere which makes a nice change. Think talent wise we are pretty even and if our cohesion and teamwork is better than the ABs then its just about doable.
11 Go to commentsCompletely agree. More friday night games would be a hit. RFU to make sure every club has a floodlit pitch. Club opens again Saturday to welcome touch / tag. Minis and youths on Sunday
6 Go to comments