'What would be the bigger headline, Sexton or Finn not going?' - Rugby Pod tackles hottest Lions selection debate
With Warren Gatland set to announce his Lions squad on May 6 to tour South Africa later this year, the debate over which out-halves should be selected has been heating up as the weeks have gone by and the latest episode of The Rugby Pod has focused on this battle for recognition between Dan Biggar, Owen Farrell, Johnny Sexton and Finn Russell.
All four No10s featured on the 2017 Lions tour to New Zealand. Farrell was picked at No10 for the first Test before switching to No12 to accommodate the inclusion of Sexton as the starting out-half in games two and three against the All Blacks.
Biggar, meanwhile, was involved in the provincial matches on that tour while Finn Russell fleetingly joined the Lions squad as one of the infamous ‘Geography Six’ and featured off the bench as a sub for Biggar in the draw with the Hurricanes.
That Lions pecking order isn’t as clear-cut four years later, though. While Biggar guided Wales to 2021 Six Nations title success and Russell helped Scotland to away wins over England and France, Farrell’s form as England captain was poor while Ireland skipper Sexton struggled with injury.
Sexton’s troubles will continue into next weekend as he won’t feature in Leinster’s Heineken Champions Cup semi-final at La Rochelle, concussion issues denying him the chance of a final Lions audition, and the selection dilemma now faced by Lions boss Gatland was discussed at length by Rugby Pod co-hosts Jim Hamilton and Andy Goode.
It hasn't gone to plan for the Irish out-half in his bid to get one-up on Biggar, Faz and Finn ahead of the May 6 Lions squad selection https://t.co/aJxI8oTHN9
— RugbyPass (@RugbyPass) April 27, 2021
Hamilton opened the topic and ultimately expressed fears that Russell, his fellow Scotsman, would lose out in this Lions selection battle. “I hope I’m completely wrong but I watched the Leicester-Northampton game where Dan Biggar rocked up and played the way that he played. The squad gets announced on May 6 and there is going to be a big omission.
“I hope I’m wrong in what I say but I can see Finn Russell not being picked. I don’t want to see it and I might be completely wrong – but I say that because of how well Dan Biggar has played. He is the front-runner. Six Nations champion, hard as nails, unbelievable kicking game, unbelievable tackler, fits in the game plan that you are going to need to beat South Africa, a good lad.
“So he is in and then you have got Farrell who will go as a 10/12 definitely. Owen Farrell is one of the best players in the world. You should have seen him at the weekend against Ealing, he was unbelievable. So Faz is definitely going to go and then that leaves Sexton or Finn.
“I don’t want to be horrible but Sexton isn’t going to play in all the games, he’s just not robust enough to do that. But he is a player that if it was a Test match you could get him right the way that you would want to play against South Africa.
“Finn didn’t have an amazing Six Nations but let’s get this right: I want Finn to go, he should go but I’m reading into the mind of Gatland… What would be the bigger headline, Goodey, Sexton not going or Finn not going? What would you say?”
Ex-England out-half Goode allayed his show colleague’s fears, reckoning Sexton will be the big selection casualty next week. “Sexton has had some more concussion issues, that leaves a big question… Farrell is playing in the Champo, didn’t have a good Six Nations but you know Farrell is going to get picked on reputation, on the fact that he can cover 10 and 12,” said Goode.
“When people are looking at it on form and saying he [Farrell] shouldn’t be in, you should have Dan Biggar, you should have Finn Russell, if you are taking three it’s then got to be a heads-up between Sexton and Farrell with the questions marks around Sexton and his injuries and Farrell isn’t playing that well.
“But we all know Farrell is a Test match animal so he will go and then Biggar is playing unbelievably well. I’m a fan of him and I’m pretty sure of putting him in my Lions XV at 10 as well. And then I am a believer if you have got two players of a Farrell and a Biggar you need a point of difference with someone else.
“So you need a Finn Russell who can change you a game. If you were starting Biggar or if you are starting Farrell at 10, or even Sexton at 10, in a Test match and it’s going well you don’t need to change your 10. 10 is a position that you change in a reaction to the game so if you are getting pumped or you are losing by ten and you need some magic, you bring Finn on. If you are winning by ten and things are comfortable you don’t change your 10, so you need someone with a point of difference.
“Finn Russell should go, Biggar should go… and Sexton may miss out just purely on the fact he has injuries and on it is a tour where there is going to be bubbles and you are going to need durable players. Someone is missing out and I have a feeling it will be Sexton.”
"He [Henson] then stood up and said he would knock me out and said your missus wants to get with me"
– New Newcastle signing Carl Fearns has made an incredibly entertaining appearance on this week's @TheRugbyPodhttps://t.co/OmZMnacsH2
— RugbyPass (@RugbyPass) April 27, 2021
Comments on RugbyPass
This is the problem with conservative mindsets and phycology, and homogenous sports, everybody wants to be the same, use the i-win template. Athlete wise everyone has to have muscles and work at the gym to make themselves more likely to hold on that one tackle. Do those players even wonder if they are now more likely to be tackled by that player as a result of there “work”? Really though, too many questions, Jake. Is it better Jake? Yes, because you still have that rugby of ole that you talk about. Is it at the highest International level anymore? No, but you go to your club or checkout your representative side and still engage with that ‘beautiful game’. Could you also have a bit of that at the top if coaches encouraged there team to play and incentivized players like Damian McKenzie and Ange Capuozzo? Of course we could. Sadly Rugby doesn’t, or didn’t, really know what direction to go when professionalism came. Things like the state of northern pitches didn’t help. Over the last two or three decades I feel like I’ve been fortunate to have all that Jake wants. There was International quality Super Rugby to adore, then the next level below I could watch club mates, pulling 9 to 5s, take on the countries best in representative rugby. Rugby played with flair and not too much riding on the consequences. It was beautiful. That largely still exists today, but with the world of rugby not quite getting things right, the picture is now being painted in NZ that that level of rugby is not required in the “pathway” to Super Rugby or All Black rugby. You might wonder if NZR is right and the pathway shouldn’t include the ‘amateur’, but let me tell you, even though the NPC might be made up of people still having to pull 9-5s, we know these people still have dreams to get out of that, and aren’t likely to give them. They will be lost. That will put a real strain on the concept of whether “visceral thrill, derring-do and joyful abandon” type rugby will remain under the professional level here in NZ. I think at some point that can be eroded as well. If only wanting the best athlete’s at the top level wasn’t enough to lose that, shutting off the next group, or level, or rugby players from easy access to express and showcase themselves certainly will. That all comes back around to the same question of professionalism in rugby and whether it got things right, and rugby is better now. Maybe the answer is turning into a “no”?
34 Go to commentsWow, didn’t realise there was such apathy to URC in SA, or by Champions Cup teams. Just read Nick’s article on Crusaders, are Sharks a similar circumstance? I think SA rugby has been far more balanced than NZs, no?
2 Go to commentsBut here in Australia we were told Penney was another gun kiwi coach, for the Tahs…….and yet again it turned out the kiwi coach was completely useless. Another con job on Australian rugby. As was Robbie Deans, as was Dave Rennie. Both coaches dumped from NZ and promoted to Australia as our saviour. And the Tahs lap them up knowing they are second rate and knowing that under pressure when their short comings are exposed in Australia as well, that they will fall in below the largest most powerful province and choose second rate Tah players to save their jobs. As they do and exactly as Joe Schmidt will do. Gauranteed. Schmidt was dumped by NZ too. That’s why he went overseas. That why kiwi coaches take jobs in Australia, to try and prove they are not as bad as NZ thought they were. Then when they get found out they try and ingratiate themselves to NZ again by dragging Australian teams down with ridiculous selections and game plans. NZ rugby’s biggest problem is that it can’t yet transition from MCaw Cheatism. They just don’t know how to try and win on your merits. It is still always a contest to see how much cheating you can get away with. Without a cheating genius like McCaw, they are struggling. This I think is why my wise old mate in NZ thinks Robertson will struggle. The Crusaders are the nursery of McCaw Cheatism. Sean Fitzpatrick was probably the father of it. Robertson doesn’t know anything else but other countries have worked it out.
15 Go to commentsIt could be coincidental or prescient that the All Blacks most dominant period under Steve Hansen was when the Crusaders had their least successful period under Todd Blackadder and then the positions reversed when Razor took over the Crusaders.
15 Go to commentsDefinitely sound read everybodyexpects immediate results these days, I don't think any team would travel well at all having lost three of the most important game changers in the game,compiled with the massive injury list they are now carrying, good to see a different more in depth perspective of a coaches history.
3 Go to commentsSinckler is a really big loss for English rugby.
1 Go to commentsThanks Nick The loss of players to OS, injury and retirement is certainly not helping the Crusaders. Ditto the coach. IMO Penny is there to hold the fort and cop the flak until new players and a new coach come through,…and that's understood and accepted by Penny and the Crusaders hierarchy. I think though that what is happening with the Crusaders is an indicator of what is happening with the other NZ SRP teams…..and the other SRP teams for that matter. Not enough money. The money has come via the SR competition and it’s not there anymore. It's in France, Japan and England. Unless or until something is done to make SR more SELLABLE to the NZ/Australia Rugby market AND the world rugby market the $s to keep both the very best players and the next rung down won't be there. They will play away from NZ more and more. I think though that NZ will continue to produce the players and the coaches of sufficient strength for NZ to have the capacity to stay at the top. Whether they do stay at the top as an international team will depend upon whether the money flowing to SRP is somehow restored, or NZ teams play in the Japan comp, or NZ opts to pick from anywhere. As a follower of many sports I’d have to say that the organisation and promotion of Super Rugby has been for the last 20 years closest to the worst I’ve ever seen. This hasn't necessarily been caused by NZ, but it’s happened. Perhaps it can be fixed, perhaps not. The Crusaders are I think a symptom of this, not the cause
15 Go to commentsNo way. If you are trying to picture New Zealand rugby with an All Blacks mindset, there have been two factors instrumental to the decline of NZ rugby to date. Those are the horror that the Blues have become and, probably more so, the fixture that the Crusaders became. I don’t think it was healthy to have one team so dominant for so long, both for lack of proper representation of players from outside that environment and on the over reliance on players from within it. If you are another international side, like Ireland for example, sure. You can copy paste something succinct from one level to the next and experience a huge increase in standards, but ultimately you will not be maximizing it, which is what you need to perform to the level the ABs do. Added to that is the apathy that develops in the whole game as a result of one sides dominance. NZ, Super, and Championship rugby should all experience a boom as a result of things balancing out. That said, there is a lot of bad news happening in NZ rugby recently, and I’m not sure the game can be handled well enough here to postpone the always-there feeling of inevitable decline of rugby.
15 Go to commentsNo SA supporter miss Super Rugby - a product that is experiencing significant head wind in ANZ - the competition from rival codes are intense, match attendance figures are at a historical low and the negativity of commentators such as Kirwan and Wilson have accelerated the downward spiral in NZ. After the next RWC in 2027 sponsors will follow Qantas and start leaving in droves.
2 Go to commentsLike others, I am not seeing the connection between this edition of the Crusaders and the All Blacks future prospects under Razor. I think the analysis of the Crusaders attack recently is helpful because Razor and his coaching team used to be able to slot new guys in to their systems and see them succeed. Several of Razor’s coaches are still there so it would be surprising if the current attack and set piece has been overhauled to a great extent - but based on that analysis, it may have been. Whether it is too many new guys due to injuries or retirement or a failure of current Crusaders systems is the main question to be answered imo. It doesn’t seem relevant for the ABs.
15 Go to commentsharry potter is set in stone. he creates stability and finishes well. exactly what schmidt likes. he’s the ben smith of australian rugby. i think it could quite easily be potter toole and kellaway for the foreseeable future.
5 Go to commentsThis is short sighted from Clayton if you ask me, smacks of too much preseason planning and no adaptability. What if DMac is out for a must win match, are they still only going to bring their best first five and playmaker on late in the game? Trusting the game to someone who wasn’t even part of planning (they would have had Trask pinned in as Jacomb preseason). Perhaps if the Crusaders were better they would not have done this, but either way imo you take this opportunity to play a guy you might need starting in a final rather than having their 12th game getting comfortable coming off the bench.
1 Go to commentsThanks Brett.. At last a positive article on the potential of Wallaby candidates, great to read. Schmidt’s record as an international rugby coach speaks for itself, I’m somewhat confident he will turn the Wallaby’s fortunes around …. on the field. It will be up to others to steady the ship off the paddock. But is there a flaw in my optimism? We have known all along that Australia has the players to be very competitive with their international rivals. We know that because everyone keeps telling us. So why the poor results? A question that requires a definitive answer before the turn around can occur. Joe Schmidt signed on for 2 years, time to encompass the Lions tour of 2025. By all accounts he puts family first and that’s fair enough, but I would wager that his 2 year contract will be extended if the next 18 months or so shows the statement “Australia has the players” proves to be correct. The new coach does not have a lot of time to meld together an outfit that will be competitive in the Rugby Championship - it will be interesting to see what happens. It will be interesting to see what happens with Giteau law, the new Wallaby coach has already verbalised that he would to prefer to select from those who play their rugby in Australia. His first test in charge is in July just over 3 months away .. not a long time. I for one wish him well .. heaven knows Australia needs some positive vibes.
21 Go to commentsWhat a load of bollocks. The author has forgotten to mention the fact that the Crusaders have a huge injury toll with top world class players out. Not to mention the fact that they are obviously in a transition period. No this will not spark a slow death for NZ rugby, but it does mean there will be a new Super Rugby champion. Anyone who knows anything about NZ rugby knows that there is some serious talent here, it just isn’t all at the Crusaders.
15 Go to commentsI wouldn’t spend the time on Nawaqanitawase! No point in having him filling in a jersey when he’s committed to leave Union. Give the jersey to a young prospect who will be here in the future.
5 Go to commentsIt was a pleasure to watch those guys playing with such confidence. That trio can all be infuriating for different reasons and I can see why Jones might have decided against them. No way to justify leaving Ikitau out though. Jorgensen and him were both scheduled to return at the same time. Only one of them plays for Randwick and has a dad who is great mates with the national coach though.
53 Go to commentsBrayden Iose and Peter Lakai are very exciting Super Rugby players but are too short and too light to ever be a Test 8 vs South Africa, France, Ireland, and England, Lakai could potentially be a Test player at 7 if he is allowed to focus on 7 for Hurricanes.
7 Go to commentsPencils “Thomas du Toit” into possible 2027 Bok squad.
1 Go to commentsDon’t see why Harrison makes the bench. Jones can play at 10 if needed, and there is a good case for starting her there to begin with if testing combinations. That would leave room for Sing on the bench
1 Go to commentsWhat a load of old bull!
1 Go to comments