'He's a winger talking about loose forwards': Former All Black No 8 rejects benching Savea
A hot take was delivered on The Breakdown this week when former All Black Jeff Wilson claimed he would shift Ardie Savea to the All Blacks bench to make way for Luke Jacobson.
Savea won All Blacks Player of the Year in 2022 and there was considerable objection online when the No 8 was left out of the World Player of the Year nominees as well as the World Rugby Dream Team.
For many, Savea’s name would be the first on the team sheet. Wilson though preferred the form of Jacobson, a standout for the Chiefs as the Waikato Super Rugby Pacific team went nearly undefeated in 2023.
While boasting 60 All Blacks appearances, Wilson’s credentials were called into question by former All Black No 8 Murray Mexted.
“I think he’s a winger talking about loose forwards,” Mexted told The Platform. “It’s interesting isn’t it, Jeff was an outstanding rugby player and has now become a fantastic colour commentator and I guess it’s provocative.
“He’s talking about a position that he’s not an expert in, he’s never played in. He was a great finisher and try scorer, and actually quite a creative finisher as well. But I don’t think he knows the art of loose forwards, If you ask him what the role of the six and the seven and the eight were – and it’s not just Jeff, it’s any commentator that played in the outside backs – they don’t necessarily know about the role of those various loose forward positions.
“I do know about that role and I know Ardie Savea.
“By the way, the role of the openside flanker and the No 8 is to retain the possession when we’ve got it and regain possession when the opposition’s got it, so you’ve actually got to be a bit of a hunter and gatherer. You’ve got to be targeting that ball and you’ve got to make sure we keep it.
“Now, Ardie’s great in that area of the game. Sam Cane is fantastic as well and I actually think Blackadder, that’s his best position because he’s a hunter and a gatherer as well. Those guys stand out.
“We’ve got plenty of open-side flankers, we haven’t got too many No 8s and that’s where I see a problem because when you play the big boys, and the Rugby Championship is the big boys most of the time, but certainly at the World Cup when you play teams like England and France and even Ireland these days, they have got at least three, often four players who are capable of winning the ball in the air.
“At the moment, with playing Ardie at No 8, we need a very big and dominant blindside flanker who can join Whitelock and Retallick and Barrett – Barrett also, I think would be an outstanding blindside flanker.
“The challenge is to get enough people that can win the ball in the air.”
The All Blacks’ first Test of the year is on July 9 and While Ian Foster has retained his core group where possible, new faces may well shake up the matchday 23.
The No 6 jersey in particular has been the topic of much debate, with the lineout issues Mexted alluded to of primary concern ahead of the World Cup. Forwards coach Jason Ryan hinted during the squad announcement that Shannon Frizzel is the top option and does offer a strong lineout option having played at lock this season for the Highlanders.
Scott Barrett’s ability to play blindside flanker is hotly debated also, the Crusaders captain offers plenty of height and lineout nous but sceptics point to the 2019 Rugby World Cup semi-final as well as a lack of experience defending from the side of the scrum as indicators that he is best to stick to lock.
Other options are the versatile Luke Jacobson or a potential debut for fellow Chief Samipeni Finau.
Comments on RugbyPass
Think it was a great defensive performance by Northampton. They didn't have stage fright in the first half, the Nienaber defense smothered them. They limited Leinster to 15-3 in the first half. It could have been over by then. A great try from Leinster in the start of the second half looked to have sealed it. But Byrne missed another conversion. Northampton started trying little kicks behind the Leinster wingers. Leinster messed one and Smith brilliantly made the conversion. Leinster decided to tighten the game after Byrne missed a straight forward penalty. A few errors got NH into the 22 and they scored and converted with a few minutes left. Another brilliant steal from Lawes saw NH have a final attack which was turned over by Conan. A classic semi final. World record attendance of 82,300. Leinsters 3 week preparation warranted for this one.
1 Go to commentsJust came back from the game and the atmosphere was amazing. Players stayed afterwards for more than a hour to sign stuff and take photos with fans. Great day out.
5 Go to commentsA great game. The Sharks without Etsebeth are a shadow of the team compared to when he plays. The limitations of Some of the expensive Sharks players are being exposed. Credit to Clermont for some exhilaration play at times.
5 Go to comments100% Mr Owens. But who would want to be a referee.? It must be the most difficult job on earth.
1 Go to commentsStarts to be overdone and oversold this systematic SA narrative…which nevertheless has the merit in this case to recognise blatant refereeing mistakes in their favor
5 Go to commentsNice article. Shades of Steinbeck. They can win the final if they take the game seriously; but only if they take it seriously.
5 Go to commentsWhat a sad way to end a glittering career. Somebody should tell him to delete his social media accounts and face the consequences of what he's done. Then he should slip away quietly into obscurity. This isn't likely to happen, something tells me he'll be back in The Sun / Daily Mail sooner rather than later.
3 Go to commentsguys its fine! he understands why he did what he did and has taken accountability for it; why should he have to be accountable to a court? after all he did was abuse people in person - its not as if he was engaging in _online_ abuse!
3 Go to commentsChiefs flanker Kaylum Boshier yellow-carded for collapsing the scrum as it rolled towards the line. It was a maul….
1 Go to commentsyou know, i’m a leinster fan so I want Northampton to lose and it is gonna be tuff with Cortney lawes, Alex michell and the other guys🏉 lets go leinster🏉
1 Go to commentsWelcome to the Pro ranks. Those hard teams of old do hit the sole better though. its a dog fight at the top.
6 Go to commentsCan someone fill me in please, I've read a number of Ben Smith articles now and it seems he's got something again South Africa? Surely, this game was over and done with 7 months ago. Can't we have something a bit more interesting and relevant, or is this the calibre of journalist on this site?
235 Go to commentsNot sure what the Welsh are moaning about. They’ve had far more players off England, than England have had off Wales. Guys like Josh Hathaway and Kane James will play for Wales in the end. And they’ll be fsr better players for having played in the Gallagher Premiership, than they ever would have been had they stayed mired in the shambles that is Welsh rugby.
4 Go to commentsThis is all being blown totally out of proportion. First of all, since half the Irish team isn’t Irish - it’s very likely that none of the Irish players said that at all and, thus, we’re not being arrogant. Second, since half the Irish team is Kiwi - it’s very likely the Kiwi players were predicting a NZ SA World Cup final. Which they got spot on. Good on them!
163 Go to commentsAha. An Irishman with logic! Follow the flow: - Ireland peaks with a >80% win record between 2020 and 2023. And then… - crashes out of another QF at the WC; - Beat a poor French Team; - Beat 6N wooden spoonists Italy; - Play shite against eventual wooden spoonists Wales; - Lose against the most boring, “the worst English team ever” , a team widely regarded as unable to attack; - scrape through against Scotland. This article, No - Trimble, is on the money! Except for one glaring statement: _The Springboks have a few aces in the hole in this debate being the reigning world champions and official world number ones_ There is no debate, boys and girls. There it is. In black and white. “Reigning World Champions and OFFICIAL world number ones”. Come July, the overrated Andy Farrell and this overhyped team are going to enter into a world of hurt.
90 Go to commentsI’d like to know what homoerotic events Daniel enjoyed at 8th man. I clearly missed out!
20 Go to commentsThis article is missing some detail, like some actual context or info about what led to him abusing the ref.
2 Go to comments*They used to say that football is a gentleman sport watched by hooligans and rugby is a hooligan sport watched by gentlemen. How times have changed.*
3 Go to commentsexcept ot wasnt late wasnt late at all so dont know why you all saying its late he commits early and its your fault fir not paying attention
30 Go to commentsNot sure the Bulls need another average utility back in their ranks. Chamberlain has been ok for the Sharks but is by no means an X-Factor player. Bulls bought several utility backs which they barely use. A typical example would be Henry Immelman who plays mostly Fullback. The Bulls however have rarely played him this year and he has played wing or centre. Bulls want to build depth but seems like they have too many surplus players
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