Finger of blame pointed at South African in Ireland loss to France

Why would the blame be placed with a secondary coach and not the head coach who is allowing these systems to be implemented?

If the IRFU really wants to make a change they are so concerned about their clubs they should be operating in the same way as NZRU and have a firmer grip on what the clubs are doing, not to the same extent of control, but essentially dictating to clubs what non negotiables for the national side are.

Otherwise IRFU needs to take the back seat and the national coach must adapt to what the most prevalent club sides are doing, not the other way around.

Just to put some understanding on this.

Leinster are now a defensive counter rucking team. They counter-ruck for the 1st prize of trying to win the ball back but second prize of slowing the opposition rucks. If you slow the rucks it means your defense gets set and you can rush and pressure the next phase etc. It takes time to structure this system in.

Ireland are a poaching team. They attempt turnovers at the breakdown. That means less bodies and usually you can fan across the pitch and make it harder for teams to get around.

On Thursday Ireland did neither. They did not counter ruck and yet attempted to rush, often hesitating and allowing the French to play around them or through dog legs. Ireland were also over fanned in tight allowing the big French men to have a field day post contact.

Nienabers system works well for Leinster. It is the fact that most of the Irish team have to completely switch defensive styles in a few days that is causing the issue.

This is not the cause of Ireland’s poor performance, but explains some of it.

Stop relying on one province. It's easy to point a finger to Nienaber but when Schmidt was in, there was actions in place and processes that he would expect from the provinces.

Now saying since that Nienaber has come in is a cheap shot. Farrell came in with his own processes and arrangements with the provinces and most definitely changed what the previous coach had in place, it has come back to bite him and Nienaber gets the finger pointed at him?

The joke is on the coach of Ireland and the IRFU! Munster, Connacht and Ulster fans have always wondered why players in their respected provinces never get a nod to wear the green jersey.

IRFU wants more Leinster players rather than mixing it up and seeing which combinations work between players from different provinces. You might be surprised at finding combos that works well.

Of course, the pundits will never blame the coach and his staff, they can't do any wrong…Farrell had the B&I Lions last year so what preparation and processes did he have in place before he left and upon his return?

Unlike France, Ireland has failed to produce younger talent already accustomed to high pressure matches. France sent what was considered a B and C side to NZ but it was more for giving other players valued experience in big matches.

If Ireland wants to keep up, then the IRFU needs to get their act together, get out of Dublin and really invest in the other three provinces who have calmly been waiting in the wings

Refsat all levels get carried away by momentum France had the momentum and the refereeing and TMOing followed. Unlucky that Andrew P isn’t featuring. AP is always the guilty one whatever happens it’s in the Refs Whatapp after all. If Refs do their job then muscle doesn’t always win, that’s why the Ref is there in the first place!😇

I think the influence of a SH backline bought by Ireland and is now aging must not be underestimated. Ireland would not have the same results over the last few years without them. Hope they develope their own players this time and do not buy the next set of SH players.

Ireland must stop blaming others and just admit that they are becoming very poor..Do they only Rely on Leinster for players no wonder they will not go far what a joke they have become

Poor excuse. National coaches have inpit into the overall plan of the unions.

How can you blame Nienaber for the Irish poor performance ???? Are you saying that the Irish coaching team have zero influence on the Leinster players in the Irish squad? Doesn’t make sense !! Weak excuses!

Wait, Nick Bishop for the last 3 years here has been credited that passing game to Steve Lancaster, so what is it? Who brought the running game, the lines, too? Those can’t have looked so good just because good passing allowed it, surely?

Nvm, think what Kearny is suggesting would do it. Interesting from a isolated SH perspective I have not seen any of this progression. Must have been so fascinating, but also like with Razor, easy to gloss over specifics about why and how something is working.

To me Ireland aren’t even trying. If Farrell brings it back first you then need to see if those skills return. They should have been built into every province by now too, perhaps it is only now theyre realizing what they got?

They were outplayed in all departments not just defence

Jesus Nienaber isn’t even the Leinster coach. This is so pathetic. Cullen is the Leinster head coach. Irelands attack is bad so you blame the Leinster Defence coach…that makes sense. Couldn’t be because you’re trying to play with the same team you’ve had for 8 years and barely had a new player come through…couldn’t be a depth issue? No never.

The day a national team blames provincial coaches for their performance is a sad day indeed.

It would never happen in South Africa

Is Nienaber defense coach of Ireland or of Leinster? If Ireland then consider doing something about it. He isn’t, so stop blaming him when Ireland do badly.

If you really don’t like what he has done for Leinster, stop hiring Leinster players to play for Ireland. Pick from the three other club teams and maybe Nienaber can be left alone to do what he is good at.

Also you guys knew what type of defense coach he was when you first hired him. Now you dont like it, i am thinking of saying “I told you so”. You want the best but criticize him when he gives it.

If you hire a coach to do what he’s done in the past, and then realize his coaching style doesn’t fit what your players need, who’s fault is that?

You can’t blame Nienaber for that. Blame must lie with the leaders who decided to hire him in the first place.

Attack people where attack is due, and please, don’t veil your target of blame with disclaimers. That is just down-right dishonest.

I’ve been saying for ages that nienaber is a major issue in irish rugby. He has moved leinster who are always going to be the bulk supplier to ireland, away from an all out fluid running attack game, to a defensive based outfit. And even that he isn’t doing well, look at how Northampton took them apart. The man is a major part of destroying irish rugby. Also take cullen with him on the way out. He’s B rate as a coach at best.

Its easy to blame, but ultimately the stats don’t lie - last year the tackle success rate in the 6-nations was 93%. Ireland achieved only 81%. In the first half France did not concede a single penalty for the first 35 minutes I think - Ireland multiple. That momentum was near-unstoppable.

The second half was essentially a draw, as both parties scored two tries and conceded penalties - equal pressure.

I’ve just put this on the other thread but it’s an interesting data set that doesn’t support the comments of the pundits and is probably a fair reflection of where IRE find themselves at present.

IRE are an interesting team to compare, traditionally strong in defence but when you look at their results they are not prolific scorers against top teams (usually sub 20 points) but they do put big scores on lesser teams to flatter some of the averages.

2019 - Played 13, PF 263 (ave 20 points) PA 228 (ave 18 points)

2020 - Played 9, PF 194 (ave 22 points) PA 155 (ave 17 points)

2021 - Played 7, PF 246 (ave 35 points) PA PA 129 (ave 18 points)

2022 - Played 11, PF 258 (ave 23 points) PA 182 (ave 17 points)

2023 - Played 13, PF 444 (ave 34 points) PA 130 (ave 10 points)

2024 - Played 11, PF 298 (ave 27 points) PA 165 (ave 15 points)

2025 - Played 11 (ex Portugal), PF (ave 35 points) PA 206 (ave 19 points)

The change in defence since 2023 has put greater pressure on the attack to score points but when they usually score less than 20 points against a top team, you are seeing them struggle against the top teams since 2024.

It’s not bad but statistically, the adverse results are more defence related, rather than attack, which has reached the tipping point and left them losing games they traditionally would have won.

One try less in defence and one better in attack would dramatically change their fortunes

Funny how some players from Boks seem not to play as well at URC or EC, but when RE and co get hold of them, they step up, so are the Irish just making excuses for not blooding enough youngsters to play with the experienced players before they retire. Both Lenster and Ireland have stuck with the tried and trusted.