'They're f**ked, basically': Ex-England player slams Pivac's Wales
Former England out-half Andy Goode has stuck the boot in on Wales after their latest horror show under Wayne Pivac, losing last Saturday to Georgia in the Autumn Nations Series. It was eight months ago when the general consensus about the Welsh was that they had reached their lowest ebb when beaten at home by Italy in the Guinness Six Nations.
However, despite taking the scalp of a weakened Springboks XV in the middle match of the July tour series they lost 1-2, the soft underbelly that currently exists under Pivac was again exposed by the Georgians in Cardiff and it has left Wales with a record of just three wins in eleven matches in 2022 heading in Saturday’s final outing versus the Wallabies.
It’s a demoralising fall-off in results but it’s a demise that was long predicted by The Rugby Pod, the weekly show co-hosted by ex-England out-half Goode and former Scotland lock Jim Hamilton. No punches were pulled regarding their latest assessment of the Welsh.
“Wales, it’s appalling,” began Goode. “Sam Warburton said it, it starts at the top, the governance of the game, how it is run, there is no depth in Wales at all now in terms of the player pool, the regions are substantially underfunded – it’s a s**t show, let’s be honest. Wales at the minute is a s**t show.
“Jim Hamilton said it about five years ago, how bad are Wales? Well, it has taken this long and they are (bad), but they have a hero that can come back and save them and they have got one more shot this weekend in terms of playing against Australia. Bring back Alun Wyn (Jones). Where was Alun Wyn when you need him? He would have won that game for them single-handedly (against Georgia).
Absolute quality from @sumostevenson today on the Pod. He could sort out a lot of rugby's problems (and sound great whilst doing so….)
Give it a listen here – https://t.co/IWKztBO1zO pic.twitter.com/oGt0Qatpyh
— The Rugby Pod (@TheRugbyPod) November 22, 2022
“You don’t want to go too hard on them. I have got a lot of time for Stephen Jones as a coach. Wayne Pivac, he is getting absolutely pelted left, right and centre for how he is managing the situation. Are the players playing for him, has he lost the whole changing room? Warren Gatland is on the scene doing a bit of Prime Video, floating around. I’m hearing people saying, ‘Just get Gats back for the World Cup now’ because Gats isn’t getting the New Zealand job. They’re f**ked, basically. Jim called it years ago.”
That was the cue for Hamilton to join the conversion and double down on Goode’s opinion. “There are great people involved in Wales and they have had a great history, but I have always felt they have overachieved because their regions don’t do that well. There is not a huge amount of investment in the game and you look at the grassroots, your Pontypridds and your Pontypools, these old-school clubs that you don’t really hear of anymore.
“There are great people involved, Stephen Jones, Gethin Jenkins, Neil Jenkins, Jonathan Humphreys, who was my coach in Scotland, is a wicked bloke, a lovely bloke. But everything you are reading is Wayne Pivac isn’t going to have a job next week. They have got Australia, who are playing in their fifth game which is again ridiculous, they look absolutely bollocksed and that is a story for another day, but I do wonder whether Wayne Pivac sees it through.
“The question is who do you bring in? Stephen Jones is the obvious one to do that. You are playing for your country and one thing that Wales normally do even if you are struggling with your regions, when you pull on the red jersey it doesn’t matter…
“Fair play to Georgia. I said they played average, that is me being a bit harsh and that is me being a bit analytical about the game but what a f**king win that is, and they beat Italy as well in the summer. People are talking about the Six Nations and whether Georgia should come in. Well, there you go, it has been answered at the weekend – get Wales in tier two.”
Goode then wrapped up the discussion, starting with the importance of Wales defeating Australia. “It’s do or die,” he figured. “Pivac is always going to have the toughest job ever replacing Warren Gatland at a time when Jim said over and over the Welsh squad is aging and that golden generation of players that were so successful, a lot of them have retired or are at the very end of their careers now and there isn’t a regeneration of players coming out of Wales now.
“That is not Wayne Pivac’s fault, the treadmill of players isn’t there. That is how the game is being run, that is how the regions are being run, that is how the academies are being run. Wayne Pivac is hamstrung by the lack of depth in players coming through.”
Comments on RugbyPass
A long held question in popular culture asks if art imitates live or does the latter influence the former? Over this 6 nations I can ask the same question of the media influencing the thoughts of its audience or vice versa. Nobody wants to see cricket scores in rugby, as a spectacle it is not sustainable. With so many articles about England’s procession and lack of competition it feeds the epicaricacy of many looking for an opportunity to pounce. England are not the first team to dominate nor does it happen only in rugby, think Federer, Nadal, Red Bull or Mercedes, Manchester Utd, Australia in tests and World Cups. Instead of celebrating the achievements why find reasons to falsify it pointing towards larger playing pool, professional for a longer period or mitigate with the lack of growth in other nations. Can we not enjoy it while it is hear and know that it won’t last for ever, others coveting what England have will soon take the crown, ask the aforementioned?
5 Go to commentsShame he won’t turn out for the Netherlands now they’re improving. U20s are Euro champs and in the U20 Trophy this year. The senior sides gets better every year too.
2 Go to commentsWill rugbypass tv be showing these games?
1 Go to commentsWell where do you start, the fact that England have a professional domestic league and Ireland’s is fully amatuer, that they have fully seperated professional squads at Fifteens and Sevens (7’s thinly disguised as GB), and Ireland have fully pro Sevens squad who loan some players back to the Semi-Professional Fifteens squad (moved from amateur for only a year or so) for a few games at 6N & RWC’s. The Women’s games is a shambles, and is at risk of killing itself by pushing for professionalism when the market isn’t really there to support it outside one or two countnries..
5 Go to commentsWayne Smith's input didn't have as much impact on the last final as Davison's red card for Thompson. England were 14 points up and flying when that happened.
5 Go to commentsBilly's been playing consistently well for 2 - 3 seasons now and deserves a look in at the top level. Ioane and ALB are still first choice but there needs to be injury cover and succession. His partnership with Jordie gives him first dibs you'd think. Go the Hurricanes.
3 Go to commentsIt’s not up to Wales to support Georgian Rugby. That’s up to International Rugby and Georgia. I sympathise with Georgia’s decent attempt to create this fixture. But for Wales the proposed match up is just a potential stick to beat them with and a potential big psychological blow that young Welsh team doesn’t need. (I’m Irish BTW.)
2 Go to commentsCale certainly looks great in space, but as you say, he has struggled in contact. At 23 years old, turning 24 this year, he should be close to full physical maturity and yet there exists a considerable gap in the power and physicality required for international rugby. Weight doesn’t automatically equate to power and physicality either. Can he go from a player who’s being physically dominated in Super rugby to physically dominating in international rugby in 1 or 2 years? That’s a big ask but he may end up being a late bloomer.
28 Go to commentsIf rugby wants to remain interesting in the AI era then it will need to work on changing the rules. AI will reduce the tactical advantage of smart game plans, will neutralize primary attacking weapons, and will move rugby from a being a game of inches to a game of millimetres. It will be about sheer athleticism and technique,about avoiding mistakes, and about referees. Many fans will find that boring. The answer is to add creative degrees of freedom to the game. The 50-22 is an example. But we can have fun inventing others, like the right to add more players for X minutes per game, or the equivalent of the 2-point conversion in American football, the ability to call a 12-player scrum, etc. Not saying these are great ideas, but making the point that the more of these alternatives you allow, the less AI will be able to lock down high-probability strategies. This is not because AI does not have the compute power, but because it has more choices and has less data, or less-specific data. That will take time and debate, but big, positive and immediate impact could be in the area of ref/TMO assistance. The technology is easily good enough today to detect forward passes, not-straight lineouts, offside at breakdown/scrum/lineout, obstruction, early/late tackles, and a lot of other things. WR should be ultra aggressive in doing this, as it will really help in an area in which the game is really struggling. In the long run there needs to be substantial creativity applied to the rules. Without that AI (along with all of the pro innovations) will turn rugby into a bash fest.
24 Go to commentsSouth Africa rarely play Ireland and France on these tours. Mostly, England, Scotland and Wales. I wonder why
2 Go to commentsIt was a let’s-see-what-you're-made-of type of a game. The Bulls do look good when the opposition allows them to, but Munster shut them down, and they could not find a way through. Jake should be very worried about their chances in the competition.
2 Go to commentsHats off to Fabian for a very impressive journey to date. Is it as ‘uniquely unlikely’ as Rugby Pass suggests, given Anton Segner’s journey at the Blues?
2 Go to commentsSad that this was not confirmed. When administrators talk about expanding the game they evidently don’t include pathways to the top tier of rugby for teams outside of the old boys club. Rugby deserves better, and certainly Georgia does.
2 Go to commentsLions might take him on if they move on Van Rooyen but I doubt he will want to go back, might consider it a step backwards for himself. Sharks would take him on but if Plumtree goes on to win the challenge cup they will keep him on. Also sharks showing some promising signs recently. Stormers and Bulls are stable and Springboks are already filled up. Quality coach though, interesting to see where he ends up
1 Go to commentsAnd the person responsible for creating a culture of accountability is?
3 Go to commentsMore useless words from Ben Smith -Please get another team to write about. SA really dont need your input, it suck anyway.
264 Go to commentsThis disgraceful episode must result in management and coach team sackings. A new manager with worse results than previous and the coaching staff need to coached. Awful massacre led by donkeys.
1 Go to commentsInteresting article with one glaring mistake. This sentence: “And between the top four nations right now, Ireland, France, South Africa, and New Zealand…” should read: And between the top four nations right now, South Africa, Ireland, New Zealand and France…”. Get it right wistful thinkers, its not that hard.
24 Go to commentsHow did Penny get the gig anyway?
3 Go to commentsNice write up Nick and I would have agreed a week ago. However as you would know Cale & co got absolutely monstered by the Blues back row of Sotutu, Ioane and Papaliti and not all of these 3 are guaranteed a start in the Black jumper. He may need to put some kgs before stepping up, Spring tour? After the week end Joe will be a bit more restless. Will need to pick a mobile tough pack for Wales and hope England does the right thing and bashes the ABs. I like your last paragraph but I would bring Swinton, Hannigan into the 6 role and Bobby V to 8
28 Go to comments