'My first reaction was another world class player is coming to the club' - Big Jim's Big Interview: Alex Goode
Our man Jim Hamilton brings you the latest in his series of ‘Big Jim’s Big Interviews’, in which he chats to Saracens’ Alex Goode about the club’s signing of Wasps’ Elliot Daly, his continued exclusion by Eddie Jones’ England and freakish athletes like the Vunipola brothers and Maro Itoje.
Jim Hamilton: What’s wrong with your knee?
Alex Goode: I got a whack, a little knee-on-knee against Leicester. It’s a bit swollen but not too bad.
JH: Do you want to pull over or stay like this?
AG: I’m fine like this. It’s nice and easy. I can talk to you very comfortably.
JH: Are you in the Range?
AG: No, the Jaguar. Had it for a couple of months. Like it a lot. The 4×4 Jag is nice.
JH: It’s more comfortable for the older gentlemen, that is what you have done. You have gone from the fast cars to the more comfortable for the older man?
AG: Yeah, you know what they say Jim, you have only got one back. When you’re going up and down the M1 I have got to make sure I’m in a comfortable ride. With all these whipper-snappers and other full-backs at the club, I have to look after myself.
JH: Thank you for speaking to me at RugbyPass, Goodie. Talk to me about the season so far at Saracens?
AG: I’d like you to refer to me as Alex, to be very clear who you are talking to because every time I go to a rugby game I get called Andy repeatedly which its tough mate, it’s tough. I like the fella, I do, but I like think we have got slightly different metabolisms knocking around in our bodies but apparently not.
JH: You definitely have. Do you get recognised as Andy Goode’s brother or as in him?
AG: It’s just the reaction. He’s obviously more famous than me. People go ‘alright Andy’ and I’m ‘it’s Alex’. ‘Oh God, sorry I meant Alex. I can’t believe I said that’ and I’m ‘no, you did though and everyone else said it’. It makes me laugh.
(Continue reading below…)
JH: I fell sorry for you, mate.
AG: Sarries had a really good start, flew out of the blocks really well. We’re in a good place. A lot of boys were rested at the start of the season and we have been playing some really good rugby and everybody is contributing. Every week it’s someone different getting man of the match or putting in a top performance, but everyone has been doing really well and the forwards have been very dominant as they always are.
Then the November international period came, we dug in and got two phenomenal results against Leicester, two really top results considering how many players we had out with injuries. Different boys took over and did really well. We had more of an attrition period in December where we knew deep down we weren’t playing that well and there were some frustrations among the group that we have high standards.
Sometimes when you’re trying to be better nothing is ever good enough and we didn’t appreciate the wins as much as we should have. That was something we looked at because sometimes when you’re searching for that target to be better it means you don’t appreciate when you beat a team and played well. You’re ‘we should have done this better, we should have done that better’. It’s something we looked at.
Obviously with the loss against Exeter, we just needed to go back to some of our basics and doing them better really was the key. That was good and we came back into the European period against Lyon and Glasgow where you saw two performances that were really good which led into the old LV Cup [Premiership Cup] with that Worcester semi-final win that was phenomenal and then we had a good result at the weekend against Leicester. It came off the back of us really putting aspects of our game together more. There was more cohesiveness in terms of defence and attack, it wasn’t just two separate areas. Our workrate off the ball was good. Generally, we put in some big performances which was great.
JH: That brings me in seamlessly to Stretts [David Strettle] doing an interview where he spoke about this international period where teams think it’s opportunity for them to get a result against Saracens. Who is leading the charge when the boys are away?
AG: There is group of leaders still there. Wiggy [Richard Wigglesworth] has a lot of experience. Brad [Barritt], myself, Jackson [Wray], there’s good leaders there and you have still got the likes of Schalk Burger who didn’t play Saturday but who is a leader among everyone. Vincent Koch has taken a lead in the scrums. Like anything, people do have to step up in those situations and take control. Calum Clark was a big leader in the LV and helped massively at the weekend. There is always lots of experience in there, but it is also a chance for other guys.
Matt Gallagher comes in, gets man of the match and it’s fantastic. For a young player that is massive. As a young player ultimately you need a chance. If you’re in there and you take it, you do all the basics really well and you can do more than that, the coaches go ‘yeah, he is ready for that level’ and they can trust you in any game. That is the ultimate compliment for a young player. There were other players like that. I thought Ben Earl was exceptional.
JH: I have always been a big fan of Matt Gallagher, he was awesome but has come in at 15, so let’s touch on Elliot Daly as well. When that signing came through how did that make you feel? Do you think Saracens are adding to the squad, do you see it as competition, how do you see it working with Liam Williams and now Mark Gallagher coming through?
AG: My first reaction was another world class player is coming to the club. Saracens is everything to me, the only club I have ever been at and I want to win as much as possible with the club. Obviously, I prepare to play every week but I saw it straight away as a good signing. He is a quality, quality player. What he brings to any side, whether it is his versatility or just what he does on the field, his speed, his physicality, he’s a good little player and he adds to the squad. For me, that is brilliant.
Also, if you look at it, he is 26 years old and we have got him for three or four years. It may not seem logical for him to be in our side this year but in the years after that there is a lot of players like myself, Sean Maitland, Brad, Marcello [Bosch], a few of the backs who are older, and he is that natural progression. We can’t play forever. I’m not calling those guys out, I’m just saying that ultimately the club has to keep pushing and pushing and evolving and someone like Elliot is brilliant to come in.
Obviously, he can play full-back. He is a brilliant full-back, but at the same time I’m always on my toes. I’ve had Liam Williams here for two years and if I don’t play well enough he will take my position. Matt Gallagher, wonderful player. But I think when you’re at a club like Saracens, a top, top club, always vying for trophies, you know if you’re not playing well enough then someone else will come in and that’s a fact. It always motivates you to play better and to drive you on to keep doing your extras. It keeps you working hard.
My first reaction was brilliant signing. He is a quality player who will add so much, but the fact he wants to be at Saracens, it speaks volumes. It’s brilliant. With regards to me, it’s up to me to keep playing well and to make sure I’m putting in the performances so that I deserve the shirt. If I’m not then there is other guys who will take it.
JH: You have been playing 10 a lot recently. What has happened with Lozer [Alex Lozowski]? Are they seeing him more as a centre and a winger now? Why is Mark McCall playing you more at 10?
AG: You probably need to ask him that. All I know is that Loz moved around quite a bit in the early stages, a bit of 10, from 12 to 13 to wing, he played full-back. He’s in danger of becoming a Swiss army knife, which is great for the club but maybe doesn’t help your international aspirations. He wanted to have a good stint at one role, a bit like Chris Wyles said to Mark McCall a couple of years back. With Loz they just want to give him a chance to nail down that centre role, work hard and get better and better.
We saw glimpses of him in European Cup, and in the Premiership semi-final last year against Wasps when he was outstanding. We have seen him in an England shirt as well. I think they just want to give him a really good chance of getting that (centre) role, to improve and get better and better. I guess for the first time in a while we have cover at 15 and it allows him [McCall] to play guys like Liam Williams or Matt Gallagher so that I can move to 10.
JH: We’re not looking for a headline but I have got to ask, do you want to still play for England and having been nominated for European player of the year along with Mako [Vunipola], what are the conversations being had around that? Have you had a conversation with Eddie Jones on why you are not even in the squad?
AG: I haven’t spoken to him much but I did speak to him before this Six Nations.
JH: Who made the contact?
AG: He contacted me and we had a little chat. I have got to keep it between me and him but the door is still open. I told him the fire burns fiercely inside me and would love to be in that World Cup squad and be involved in it. England is everything to me and he knows that. I have just got to keep playing well, to keep putting my hand up week in week out, keep playing well in these big games and then we’ll see from there. All I can do is keep knocking on the door, keep myself healthy and then believe I have a chance.
JH: What is he [Jones] saying you need to improve on? Is it aerially because it’s clearly not attack?
AG: He has not said anything about workload. Just keep moving well, keep attacking well.
JH: Tick, tick. What else?
AG: It’s just keep myself healthy, keep myself prepared and ready. Who knows what will happen. And just look after myself. There was positivity in that but I’m also realistic. Elliot Daly is playing very well for England at the moment. The England team is playing very well, but you can’t look at the England games every week and think I’m never going to get a chance. You have got to focus on the club, play well for Saracens, do that every week and hope the chance comes. It wasn’t a negative conversation at all. I have just got to keep playing well.
JH: Are you desperate to be out there? Is there something inside you where you’re gutted you’re not playing? Or is it a case you know you’re playing and watching and supporting the lads, or is there a part of you that is really desperate to get out there?
AG: Massively (desperate to get out there). I always say the worst thing for me is hearing the national anthem which is actually my favourite moment as a player wanting to be there. You know that as a player when it’s a home game and you just hear the crowd belting out the anthem and the hair on the back of your neck just stands up, it’s such passion. It’s amazing, the greatest feeling you have playing for your country, so not to be able to do that is really hard. I’d love do it. It’s obviously disappointing, gutting in that sense.
But the other side of it is I’m an England fan, I have got a good friends playing in those games and I want them to go unbelievably well. I’m proud of them in a very non-male way for what they are doing and how well they are playing for England. Seeing the guys I know who work so hard at the club go out and play incredibly well in the international arena and defy critics with performances that everyone across the country is proud of and thinks they are incredible, that is great. I want them to do really well.
And even guys I don’t play with, I still want them do well for England. They are guys I have been in camp with, they are people I know well and the England team just playing well is brilliant. You see how happy it makes everyone, how much they get into rugby and talk about it. There is a buzz at the moment. If they can get over the line against Wales, which will be an incredibly tough game down in the Millennium, then people will start to really believe we are building for this World Cup.
JH: Good on you. Last two questions and they are Saracens-related. Only one line answers are needed. You have been at Saracens since 2008, so you have seen a lot of players come in, a load of changes…
AG: 2006.
JH: …the researcher has done a good job mate. What changes have you seen at the club?
AG: When Brendan Venter and Edward Griffiths came in the transformation was a huge change. It changed the culture more than anything else. Not performance, just culture. How we were with each other, how we went about treating each other, how the club looked after us, and the results off the back of it were phenomenal.
JH: Correct. And in your time, I don’t know whether you can say freak but we will say it anyway, but of all the players you have played with in a game that has changed beyond belief, who has been the best athlete, the best kind of guy you have looked at and thought ‘wow’, apart from myself and Petrus du Plessis?
AG: Jim, you didn’t see Mako’s comment. He said the [Mike] Rhodes pass at the weekend was like a Jim Hamilton pass. Not quite the Aurillac pass that we always talk about, your favourite, which you take a lot of stick for. But we all know that Chris Ashton managed to slice the ball so far off the field that it went over that stand and out to the thirds team pitch… but the best athlete?
JH: The game changer, the one who has come in, has come through and you’re like, ‘right he has changed the game’?
AG: I wouldn’t say change the game and bear in mind he has a slight bit of Borthism [Steve Borthwick], but Schalk Brits, he is very freakish in terms of his power, a really power athlete. He obviously ate a lot of protein as a kid but very very powerful. The things he can do in tight spaces, get hit extremely hard, still offload and hit people very hard. He has a level of aggression that makes him very special. Everyone has seen the skills but it is that power and aggression that makes him very good.
But I think really as athletes, when you look at the current generation as you go on, it’s very hard to look past the Vunipolas who are brilliant. They look like a bag of sick, both of them, but they’re incredible. Their footwork, their power, their game understanding to go with it is brilliant. I have seen Billy get lined up by three lads trying to smash him and he just drives the tackle, takes them on. They all try and choke-tackle him and he just drives on, gets to ground and gets the ball back in one second and you’re ‘how does he do that?’ And Mako’s the same. Brilliant. But I remember a story with Maro Itoje. I have done four people here so I have really narrowed it down to for you to choose.
JH: We’re going to use all of them. This isn’t even an article, it’s a book.
AG: When Maro Itoje came in, I remember his first day of pre-season and he has just come out of school. He had only left about a week before and they are doing testing for the academy guys. He came in and he didn’t even know his own strength, it was freakish. He was doing chin-ups, those things where there is a bar above your head and you try and lift your own weight, lift your head to the same level as your arms.
He came in first day, started on 20 kilos. It was a one rep max and he did it and then proceeded to go up and up and up and up. He was so unaware. He ended up having 74 kilos around his waist and proceeded to do a chin-up with ease. This a a guy a couple of days out of school.
Most people who are good at chin-ups are light players, strong arms, their stretch is very good, all arms no legs. But Maro is a big set guy and his arms are so long, so powerful. Then he can run as well, he’s quick. The guy is an athlete. Pure athleticism? He has got to be right up there.
Comments on RugbyPass
Super rugby is struggling but that has little to do with sabbaticals. 1. Too many teams from Aust and NZ - should be 3 and 4 respectively, add in 2 from Japan, 1 possibly 2 from Argentina. 2. Inconsistent and poor refereeing, admittedly not restricted to Super rugby. Only one team was reffed at the breakdown in Reds v H’Landers match. Scrum penalty awarded in Canes v Drua when No 8 had the ball in the open with little defence nearby - ideal opportunity to play advantage. Coming back to Reds match - same scrum situation but ref played advantage - Landers made 10 yards and were penalised at the breakdown when the ref should have returned to scrum penalty. 3. Marketing is weak and losing ground to AFL and NRL. Playing 2 days compared with 4. 4. Scheduling is unattractive to family attendance. Have any franchises heard of Sundays 2pm?
8 Go to commentsAbsolutely..all they need is a chance in yhe playoffs and I bet all the other teams will be nervous…THEY KNOW HOW TO WIN IM THE PLAYOFFS..
2 Go to commentsI really hope he comes back and helps out with some coaching.
1 Go to commentsI think we are all just hoping that the Olympic 7s doesn’t suffer the same sad fate as the last RWC with the officials ruining the spectacle.
1 Go to commentsPersonally, I’ve lost the will to even be bothered about the RFU, the structure, the participants. It’s all a sham. I now simply enjoy getting a group of friends together to go and watch a few games a year in different locations (including Europe, the championship, etc). I feel extremely sorry for the real fans of these clubs who are constantly ignored by the RFU and other administrators. I feel especially sorry for the fans of clubs in the Championship who have had considerable central funding stripped away and are then expected to just take whatever the RFU put to them. Its all a sham, especially if the failed clubs are allowed to return.
9 Go to commentsI’m guessing Carl Hayman would have preferred to have stayed in NZ with benefit of hindsight. Up north there is the expectation to play twice as many games with far less ‘player management’ protocols that Paul is now criticising. Less playing through concussions means longer, healthier, careers. Carter used as the eg here by Paul, his sabbatical allowed him to play until age 37. OK its not an exact science but there is far more expectations on players who sign for Top 14 or Engl Prem clubs to get value for the huge salaries. NZR get alot wrong but keeping their best players in NZ rugby is not one of them. SA clubs are virtually devoid of their top players now, no thanks. They cant threaten the big teams in the Champions Cup, the squads have little depth. Cant see Canes/Chiefs struggling. Super has been great this year, fantastic high skill matches. Drua a fantastic addition and Jaguares will add another quality team eventually. Aus teams performing strongly and no doubt will benefit with the incentive of a Lions tour and a home RWC. Let Jordie enjoy his time with Leinster, it will allow the opportunity for another player to emerge at Canes in his absence.
8 Go to commentsLove that man, his way to despise angry little men is so funny ! 😂
4 Go to comments“South African franchises would be powerhouses if we had all our overseas based players back in situ. We would have the same unbeatable aura the Toulouses, Leinsters or Saracens of this world have had over the last decade or so.” Proof that Jake white does not understand the economics of the game in SA. Players earning abroad are not going to simply come back and represent the bulls. But they might if they have a springbok contract.
22 Go to commentsA lot of fans just joined in for the fun of it! We all admire O'Gara and what he has done for La Rochelle
4 Go to commentsThe RFU will find a way to mess this up as usual. My bet is there will be no promotion into the the Premiership, only relegation into National League One. Hopefully they won’t parachute failed clubs into the league at the expense of clubs who have battled for promotion.
9 Go to commentsWell that’s the contracts for RG and Jordie bought and paid for. Now, what are the chances we can persuade Antoine to hop over with all the extra dosh we’ll have from living at the Aviva & Croke next season…??? 🤑🤑🤑
14 Go to commentsWow, that’s incredible. Great for rugby.
14 Go to commentsYou probably read that parling is going to coach the wallaby lineout but if not before now you have.
14 Go to commentsIf someone like Leo Cullen was in O’Gara’s place I don’t hear Boo-ing. It’s not just that La Rochelle has hurt Leinster and O’Gara is their Irish boss. It’s the needle that he brings and the pantomime activity before the game around pretending that Munster were supporting LaRochelle just because O’Gara is from Cork. That’s dividing Irish provinces just to get an advantage for his French Team. He can F*ck right off with that. BOOOOO! (but not while someone is lying injured)
4 Go to commentsDid the highlanders party too hard before the game? They were the pits.
1 Go to commentsWhat a player! Not long until he’s in the England side, surely?
5 Go to commentsHe seems to have the same aura as Marcus Smith - by which I mean he’s consistently judged as if he’s several years younger than he actually is. Mngomezulu has played 24 times for the Stormers. When Pollard was his age he had played 24 times for South Africa! He has more time to develop, but he has also had time to do some developing already, and he hasn’t demonstrated nearly as much talent in that time as one would expect. If he is a generational talent, then it must be a pretty poor generation.
6 Go to commentsThe greatest Springbok coach of all time is entirely on the money. Rassie and Jacques have given the south african public a great few years, but the success of the springbok selection policy will need to be judged in light of what comes next. The poor condition that the provincial system is currently in doesn’t bode well for the next few years of international rugby, and the insane 2026 schedule that the Boks have lined up could also really harm both provincial and international consistency.
22 Go to commentsJake White is a brilliant coach and a master in the press. This is another masterclass in media relations and PR but its also a very narrow view with arguments that dont always hold water. White wants his team to win, he wants the best players in SA and wants his team competitive. You however have to face up to the reality of a poor exchange rate and big clubs with big budgets. SA Rugby cant compete and unless it can find more money SA players will keep leaving regardless of Springbok eligibility and this happened in 2015 - 2017. Also rugby is not cricket. Cricket has 3 formats and T20 cricket is where the money is at. When it comes to club vs country the IPL is king but that wont happen because the international calendar does not clash with the club calendar in rugby. So the argument about rugby going down the same path as cricket is really a non-starter
22 Go to commentsNZ rugby seem not to have learnt anything from professional rugby. Super rugby was dying and SA left before they died with the competition. SA rugby did a u turn on their approach to international players playing overseas and such players are now selected for Bok teams. As much as each country would love to retain their players playing in local competitions, this is the way the world is evolving my friends. Move with it or stay 20 years behind the times. One more thing. NZ rugby hierarchy think they are the big cheese. Take a more humble approach guys. You do not seem to have your players best interests at heart.
8 Go to comments