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Matt Williams claims Celtic sides might never win Six Nations again if Boks join
Former Scotland coach Matt Williams has claimed that the Celtic nations might never win the Six Nations again if the Springboks were allowed to join.
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The claim was made during a Virgin Media Sports discussion centred around Italy and their ongoing viability in the tournament, after they fell to a 32 – 22 loss to Scotland in Rome.
Italy have now lost 36 times consecutively in the competition, and despite a promising young side emerging under New Zealander Kieran Crowley, winning still appears to be out of reach for the Azzurri.
The disheartening run of losses has of course given rise a yearly debate around their continuing in the tournament and the debate this season has been coloured by talk of South Africa eventually joining.
The Six Nations have firmly denied any changes on this front are afoot, but it hasn’t stopped pundits pondering what a Springboks side in the Six Nations might look like.
Shane Horgan warned that Italy could go another 36 games without a win if the isn’t meaningful change.
“On the evidence of today, it’ll be another 36 games before they win a game in the Six Nations.
“Unless there’s fundamental change, the drumbeat for South Africa to be in this is are going to get louder.”
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Despite Wales and Ireland having won seven of the last ten Six Nations, Williams then made the odd claim that Ireland, Scotland and Wales could face never winning the tournament again if South Africa joined.
“The problem with international rugby is that it is the result of long-term athletic development. You can’t develop the group required at the national team – it has to be done before they get to the national team,” Williams said.
“That’s why the academy systems and club systems are so important. I’m going to say something here, disagreeing with Shane [Horgan]. If South Africa come into this competition, the Celtic countries will face not winning, possibly ever, the competition again.
“That cannot happen. The Welsh, the Irish, and the Scots cannot enter into a competition that is traditionally theirs, where they say, ‘the chances of you winning this in the future are almost nil.’
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“How are Ireland, Scotland, or Wales, going to go down to Pretoria at altitude in the summer and win?”
It seems like an odd claim, given Ireland have won on South African soil as recently as 2016, a tour where many felt they were unfortunate not to pick up a series victory against the Springboks, with just six points separating the sides in all three Tests.
What makes it even more odd is that in a theoretical competition involving the Boks, every other year the Celtic sides would be hosting the Springboks at home, where all three have toppled the Springboks in recent years.
Horgan did disagree with Williams’ point, saying: “I don’t think that’s the debate. Because I think that could happen [winning in South Africa].
“I think it would become very difficult to win a Grand Slam under those circumstances but that’s not the point.
“I’m saying that they shouldn’t be in this tournament. But there will be a drumbeat that will continue which says ‘how can we continue with one nation that loses every single game… and it can’t continue.
“Unless it’s changed, someone at someone will say ‘to make this more competitive, we’ll get South Africa in there’. There’s a difference between not being competitive and losing every single game for six years.
“It’s not even close.”
Williams then pointed out: ‘I think the last six years, everyone is disappointed with Italy. There’s no two ways about it, including the Italians. There’s no joy for Italian rugby in any of this.
“I think a serious conversation needs to had with the leadership in Italian rugby about what they’re doing with their programme.
“If we switch this on their head, at the beginning of professional, Ireland were right down the bottom o the ladder. They went about building up their clubs and their academies and now we’re in the situation where Ireland are winners.
“On the evidence of today, it’ll be another 36 games before they win a game in the Six Nations.
“Unless there’s fundamental change, the drumbeat for South Africa to be in this is going to get louder.”
Another weekend. Another lengthy Italy chat. #ITAvSCO #GuinnessSixNations pic.twitter.com/qTYmbG4HSP
— Virgin Media Sport (@VMSportIE) March 12, 2022
“The solution to this is not going to come in 12 months. We look at France, who are going to win the Grand Slam at the end of an eight year plan. It started when these kids, the current players, were 16, 17 and 18.
“The trouble is we’re hearing the opposite. That they taking out of their systems.”
Comments on RugbyPass
It’s not up to Wales to support Georgian Rugby. That’s up to International Rugby and Georgia. I sympathise with Georgia’s decent attempt to create this fixture. But for Wales the proposed match up is just a potential stick to beat them with and a potential big psychological blow that young Welsh team doesn’t need. (I’m Irish BTW.)
2 Go to commentsCale certainly looks great in space, but as you say, he has struggled in contact. At 23 years old, turning 24 this year, he should be close to full physical maturity and yet there exists a considerable gap in the power and physicality required for international rugby. Weight doesn’t automatically equate to power and physicality either. Can he go from a player who’s being physically dominated in Super rugby to physically dominating in international rugby in 1 or 2 years? That’s a big ask but he may end up being a late bloomer.
24 Go to commentsIf rugby wants to remain interesting in the AI era then it will need to work on changing the rules. AI will reduce the tactical advantage of smart game plans, will neutralize primary attacking weapons, and will move rugby from a being a game of inches to a game of millimetres. It will be about sheer athleticism and technique,about avoiding mistakes, and about referees. Many fans will find that boring. The answer is to add creative degrees of freedom to the game. The 50-22 is an example. But we can have fun inventing others, like the right to add more players for X minutes per game, or the equivalent of the 2-point conversion in American football, the ability to call a 12-player scrum, etc. Not saying these are great ideas, but making the point that the more of these alternatives you allow, the less AI will be able to lock down high-probability strategies. This is not because AI does not have the compute power, but because it has more choices and has less data, or less-specific data. That will take time and debate, but big, positive and immediate impact could be in the area of ref/TMO assistance. The technology is easily good enough today to detect forward passes, not-straight lineouts, offside at breakdown/scrum/lineout, obstruction, early/late tackles, and a lot of other things. WR should be ultra aggressive in doing this, as it will really help in an area in which the game is really struggling. In the long run there needs to be substantial creativity applied to the rules. Without that AI (along with all of the pro innovations) will turn rugby into a bash fest.
24 Go to commentsSouth Africa rarely play Ireland and France on these tours. Mostly, England, Scotland and Wales. I wonder why
1 Go to commentsIt was a let’s-see-what-you're-made-of type of a game. The Bulls do look good when the opposition allows them to, but Munster shut them down, and they could not find a way through. Jake should be very worried about their chances in the competition.
2 Go to commentsHats off to Fabian for a very impressive journey to date. Is it as ‘uniquely unlikely’ as Rugby Pass suggests, given Anton Segner’s journey at the Blues?
1 Go to commentsSad that this was not confirmed. When administrators talk about expanding the game they evidently don’t include pathways to the top tier of rugby for teams outside of the old boys club. Rugby deserves better, and certainly Georgia does.
2 Go to commentsLions might take him on if they move on Van Rooyen but I doubt he will want to go back, might consider it a step backwards for himself. Sharks would take him on but if Plumtree goes on to win the challenge cup they will keep him on. Also sharks showing some promising signs recently. Stormers and Bulls are stable and Springboks are already filled up. Quality coach though, interesting to see where he ends up
1 Go to commentsAnd the person responsible for creating a culture of accountability is?
3 Go to commentsMore useless words from Ben Smith -Please get another team to write about. SA really dont need your input, it suck anyway.
264 Go to commentsThis disgraceful episode must result in management and coach team sackings. A new manager with worse results than previous and the coaching staff need to coached. Awful massacre led by donkeys.
1 Go to commentsInteresting article with one glaring mistake. This sentence: “And between the top four nations right now, Ireland, France, South Africa, and New Zealand…” should read: And between the top four nations right now, South Africa, Ireland, New Zealand and France…”. Get it right wistful thinkers, its not that hard.
24 Go to commentsHow did Penny get the gig anyway?
3 Go to commentsNice write up Nick and I would have agreed a week ago. However as you would know Cale & co got absolutely monstered by the Blues back row of Sotutu, Ioane and Papaliti and not all of these 3 are guaranteed a start in the Black jumper. He may need to put some kgs before stepping up, Spring tour? After the week end Joe will be a bit more restless. Will need to pick a mobile tough pack for Wales and hope England does the right thing and bashes the ABs. I like your last paragraph but I would bring Swinton, Hannigan into the 6 role and Bobby V to 8
24 Go to commentsThe Crusaders can still get in to the Play Off’s. The imminent return of outstanding captain Scott Barrett and his All Black team mate Codie Taylor will be a big boost.There are others like Tamaiti Williams too. Two home games coming up. Fellow Crusader fans get there and support these guys. I will be.
2 Go to commentsCant get more Wellington than Proctor.
2 Go to commentsWhy not let the media decide. Like how they choose the head coach. Like most of us we entrust the rugby system to choose. A rugby team includes the coaches. It's collective.
14 Go to commentsHi NIck, I have been very impressed with him and he seems a smart player who can see opportunities which Bobby V _(who must be an international 6_) doesn’t see or have the speed to take advantage of. If he continues to improve and puts on 5kgs then he could be a great 8. He is a bit taller than Keiran Reid at 1.93m and 111 kgs, so his skill set fits his body size and who knows where it will lead. I hope the spate of Achilles tendon issues have been dealt with by the S&C people. It’s been a very long time since Mark Loane and Kefu stood out at 8. The question is will we be able to hold onto him, if he does make it he will be pretty hot property. I disagree with the idea of letting them go to the Northern Hemisphere and then bring them back.
24 Go to commentsBilly Fulton 🤣🤣🤣🤣 garrrmon not even close
14 Go to commentsDoes the AI take into account refs? hahaha Seriously why not have two on field refs to avoid bias?
24 Go to comments