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'He did ride him pretty hard... he doesn't really get on me like that' - Lawes admits teammate got the 'brunt' of England boss

By Ian Cameron
Courtney Lawes and Dylan Hartley (Getty Images)

Courtney Lawes has conceded that former Northampton Saints teammate Dylan Hartley had a very different relationship with England head coach Eddie Jones compared to one he has enjoyed since the Australian took over in 2016.

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In a recent interview in the Daily Telegraph to publicise his new book, former England skipper Hartley said that he felt “like a piece of meat, thrown in the bin because it was past its sell-by date. I’d had enough of being governed by Eddie.”

As he battled to prove his fitness, he was eventually told by Jones: “You’re f****d, mate.”

The details are revealed in a new book chronicling the career of Hartley, one Lawes is yet to read, but the lock did have a ringside seat on their relationship.

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Courtney Lawes talks to Big Jim

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Courtney Lawes talks to Big Jim

“Me and Eddie had quite a different relationship than with Dyls [Dylan Hartley] and Eddie. Because Dyls was the captain, he did ride him pretty hard. He definitely got the brunt of Eddie. I’m just kind of… floating around basically,” Lawes told Jim Hamilton in a RugbyPass Lockdown interview.

“I do my leadership bits but ultimately me and Dylan have different personalities. [Eddie] doesn’t really get on me like that. But in terms of when Eddie first came in, I was just going through the motions in my career. I was still starting regularly for England, still quite young, and just not working hard enough, as hard as I should have been.

“I think he recognised that and opened my eyes up to how much I’d fallen off, which obviously was disappointing for me – not just to hear but to know. I did go through a portion of my career just going through the motions, not being hungry enough basically.

“I wasn’t lazy, I was still doing a lot of hard graft, but I had moved away from the ball carrying aspect of my game. I was concentrating on work-rate and my defensive stuff, which I normally do. He wanted me to add that ball-carrying that I had when I was younger but had lost a lot of confidence in. He drove me to put a big emphasis on that in my training, do loads of extras and get my act in gear basically.”

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Lawes says he doesn’t know if he’d go along with Hartley’s view of professional rugby players as crash Test dummies. “It’s the physicality of the sport that brings a lot of viewers in. It’s actually the physicality of the sport that I enjoy.

“I don’t know if I feel like a crash test dummy. All I know is that this is what I signed up for. This is what I’m here for.”

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Jon 7 hours ago
Jake White: Are modern rugby players actually better?

This is the problem with conservative mindsets and phycology, and homogenous sports, everybody wants to be the same, use the i-win template. Athlete wise everyone has to have muscles and work at the gym to make themselves more likely to hold on that one tackle. Do those players even wonder if they are now more likely to be tackled by that player as a result of there “work”? Really though, too many questions, Jake. Is it better Jake? Yes, because you still have that rugby of ole that you talk about. Is it at the highest International level anymore? No, but you go to your club or checkout your representative side and still engage with that ‘beautiful game’. Could you also have a bit of that at the top if coaches encouraged there team to play and incentivized players like Damian McKenzie and Ange Capuozzo? Of course we could. Sadly Rugby doesn’t, or didn’t, really know what direction to go when professionalism came. Things like the state of northern pitches didn’t help. Over the last two or three decades I feel like I’ve been fortunate to have all that Jake wants. There was International quality Super Rugby to adore, then the next level below I could watch club mates, pulling 9 to 5s, take on the countries best in representative rugby. Rugby played with flair and not too much riding on the consequences. It was beautiful. That largely still exists today, but with the world of rugby not quite getting things right, the picture is now being painted in NZ that that level of rugby is not required in the “pathway” to Super Rugby or All Black rugby. You might wonder if NZR is right and the pathway shouldn’t include the ‘amateur’, but let me tell you, even though the NPC might be made up of people still having to pull 9-5s, we know these people still have dreams to get out of that, and aren’t likely to give them. They will be lost. That will put a real strain on the concept of whether “visceral thrill, derring-do and joyful abandon” type rugby will remain under the professional level here in NZ. I think at some point that can be eroded as well. If only wanting the best athlete’s at the top level wasn’t enough to lose that, shutting off the next group, or level, or rugby players from easy access to express and showcase themselves certainly will. That all comes back around to the same question of professionalism in rugby and whether it got things right, and rugby is better now. Maybe the answer is turning into a “no”?

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j
john 10 hours ago
Will the Crusaders' decline spark a slow death for New Zealand rugby?

But here in Australia we were told Penney was another gun kiwi coach, for the Tahs…….and yet again it turned out the kiwi coach was completely useless. Another con job on Australian rugby. As was Robbie Deans, as was Dave Rennie. Both coaches dumped from NZ and promoted to Australia as our saviour. And the Tahs lap them up knowing they are second rate and knowing that under pressure when their short comings are exposed in Australia as well, that they will fall in below the largest most powerful province and choose second rate Tah players to save their jobs. As they do and exactly as Joe Schmidt will do. Gauranteed. Schmidt was dumped by NZ too. That’s why he went overseas. That why kiwi coaches take jobs in Australia, to try and prove they are not as bad as NZ thought they were. Then when they get found out they try and ingratiate themselves to NZ again by dragging Australian teams down with ridiculous selections and game plans. NZ rugby’s biggest problem is that it can’t yet transition from MCaw Cheatism. They just don’t know how to try and win on your merits. It is still always a contest to see how much cheating you can get away with. Without a cheating genius like McCaw, they are struggling. This I think is why my wise old mate in NZ thinks Robertson will struggle. The Crusaders are the nursery of McCaw Cheatism. Sean Fitzpatrick was probably the father of it. Robertson doesn’t know anything else but other countries have worked it out.

39 Go to comments
A
Adrian 12 hours ago
Will the Crusaders' decline spark a slow death for New Zealand rugby?

Thanks Nick The loss of players to OS, injury and retirement is certainly not helping the Crusaders. Ditto the coach. IMO Penny is there to hold the fort and cop the flak until new players and a new coach come through,…and that's understood and accepted by Penny and the Crusaders hierarchy. I think though that what is happening with the Crusaders is an indicator of what is happening with the other NZ SRP teams…..and the other SRP teams for that matter. Not enough money. The money has come via the SR competition and it’s not there anymore. It's in France, Japan and England. Unless or until something is done to make SR more SELLABLE to the NZ/Australia Rugby market AND the world rugby market the $s to keep both the very best players and the next rung down won't be there. They will play away from NZ more and more. I think though that NZ will continue to produce the players and the coaches of sufficient strength for NZ to have the capacity to stay at the top. Whether they do stay at the top as an international team will depend upon whether the money flowing to SRP is somehow restored, or NZ teams play in the Japan comp, or NZ opts to pick from anywhere. As a follower of many sports I’d have to say that the organisation and promotion of Super Rugby has been for the last 20 years closest to the worst I’ve ever seen. This hasn't necessarily been caused by NZ, but it’s happened. Perhaps it can be fixed, perhaps not. The Crusaders are I think a symptom of this, not the cause

39 Go to comments
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