'It has that wonderful air of unpredictability' - Dallaglio on RWC, England's revival and fighting for kids excluded from mainstream education
It’s 16 years since Lawrence Dallaglio’s England ruled the world, the talisman No8 fitting in perfectly as a piston driving his country on to glory behind their engine room skipper Martin Johnson.
His retirement from playing hasn’t been about pipe and slippers by the fireside, thinking of the good old days and all the battles that were won and celebrated. Far from it. “It’s about keeping yourself active really and lucky enough I have carried on exercising,” explained Dallaglio to RugbyPass.
“I’m on the bike a lot and I’m in the gym. I dread to think what would happen if I stopped doing that. I’m okay for now and I’m still young pup, I’m only 47.”
Currently, he has the adrenaline of a teenager. Rugby World Cup is on the horizon and the Land Rover ambassador, who is doubling up as an ITV pundit for the finals where he will be on the ground in Japan from the quarter-finals onwards, can’t wait for the tournament to get started.
World Cup hype has a habit of being manufactured, lame cliches repetetatively trotted out for the sake of something being said to offset the predicability of who will win. But there is very different dynamic surrounding these pioneering first finals in the Far East.
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No one is mortgaging their house on the outcome, a situation that is giving the 2003 winner goosebumps thinking about the many different ways the results might fall. “I’m as excited as I have been for a long time,” he enthused. “It’s getting the juices flowing like no other tournament. It’s very exciting indeed.”
Give Dallaglio an inch in conversation and he forcefully takes a mile to exhaustively explain how he feels it is all shaping up. “I’m not tired about talking about rugby. The beauty about this tournament, this particular World Cup, is that depending on which way you are coming at it, you can build a case in quite a few different directions and we haven’t had that for quite a while, that is for sure.
“There has been a slight air of predictability about international rugby, particularly with the strength of New Zealand in the southern hemisphere, but you can’t quite say the same this time around. It’s exciting, it’s wide open. There is a little unpredictability about it and it could just be the opportunity for someone to write their name in history,” he said, momentarily pausing before taking a depth breath and getting further into the meat and drink of his synopsis.
‘You don’t fully realise how much of a bubble professional sport is until that bubble actually bursts’
– @BryanHabana tells @heagneyl about his life after rugby retirement, the rejuvenation of the @Springboks and his excitement for the @rugbyworldcup ??https://t.co/gmoCmXcNve— RugbyPass (@RugbyPass) August 25, 2019
“We have to pay homage to the double world champions [New Zealand] who have coaches who have won a World Cup and players who have been to a World Cup and won and have probably got more experience of playing in Japan than any other team.
“Before we get too ahead of ourselves, let’s make it very clear that they are the No1 side and the team to beat when they pick their players in their right positions, which I’m sure they will do come their opening game and they go out there with their best available team. They are going to take some beating.
“They have a win ratio that is still above 90 per cent. That suggests that if you have only got to win seven games they are going go be the team to beat. But the good news is that they have been a little bit more vulnerable than in the past and there is a much stronger case that you can build for some of the other sides on their day.
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SBW is one of four current All Blacks from the 2011 team that have never tasted defeat at a World Cup. Will that experience be invaluable in Japan? ??#allblacks #rwc #rwcsquad #nzrugby #sbw #bluesrugby #counties #rugby #rugbyworldcup #rwcjapan
“If you’re a guy who likes a flutter and you took South Africa last year at 12/1 you would be pretty happy with that bet now because they look like a team that has got momentum behind them with Rassie Erasmus coaching. They have certainly got the organisational skills and the belief to go and win the tournament.
“Who knows? By playing New Zealand in the first game they might blow the tournament wide open if they were able to win. England are in a good place at the right time. They are fit, they look strong and they are playing some pretty good rugby. Equally you would say the same about the likes of Wales.
“Australia, we can sit here and say are they good enough to win a World Cup but can they be consistently good enough go win seven games on the trot? There are question marks in the last couple of years as to whether they can do that, but are they good enough to beat any of the sides taking part in a one-off game? The Rugby Championship would suggest they are.
‘I remember as a kid having vague recollections of police checks and border controls, so the thought of going back there feels as though it's such a step back in time’
– @BrianODriscoll talks to @heagneyl about Brexit, @IrishRugby and @rugbyworldcuphttps://t.co/jHOw9x5HfE— RugbyPass (@RugbyPass) September 1, 2019
“They are going to be a very dangerous side, particularly if they make it through to the knockout stages because they have shown in recent weeks with a full squad they are capable of beating anyone. So yeah, the tournament is set fare and that is why it makes it exciting to talk about because there is lots of different directions you can push it really.”
A special word, though, for his own country England. Can they really emulate what Dallaglio and co memorably achieved in 2003 in Australia, especially after their last participation in the finals ended in pool stage ignominy in 2015?
“They have come a long way in four years is what I would say. Clearly, that was the low point of English World Cup history, the first team to not qualify out of the pool stages of a host World Cup. Eddie Jones took over and they have someone who has been to World Cup finals and won and lost.
“He has immense experience. He talked when he took England over about not having any world-class players but their journey and development in the last four years has seen that shift dramatically. They do have a number of players who are right up there among the best in the world in their position now and if they keep them fit and fresh then they have got as good a chance as any.
“They have had a few defeats which raised question marks where they switched off for spells in games, 10, 15, 20 minutes which has cost them. But if they have learned some of the lessons from those games in Cardiff last season, the second half against New Zealand at Twickenham, they have got what it takes for sure.
“I like the look of the squad that he has picked. He has got a core of players who have won trophies in domestic, European and international rugby over the last two or three years and that creates that real belief that they go to Japan and do something special.”
Speaking generally, Dallaglio hopes that RWC 2019 can accelerate rugby’s global appeal, a wish dependent on the minnows shining and the sport being easy to understand and consume for the non-rugby fans tuning in. “This is the ninth World Cup but the first time it is going to be in Asia, which is groundbreaking and historic as a sport.
“Yes, we have got some of the usual favourites that we are discussing but there are some pretty special tier two nations and it will feel it is more of a global tournament than it has been in along time.
“Rugby has really grown in the United States, there has been huge coverage the last few years. The appreciation of rugby is getting bigger and bigger and there is an opportunity as the playing schedule is a little bit fairer this time, not just slanted towards the tier one nations.
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An impossible task but hoping we get at least 5 out of 15 correct… #RugbyWorldCup #Japan2019
“There is an opportunity. The fact that we can’t call the winner gives it that wonderful air of unpredictability as we saw in the last tournament when they hosts didn’t make it out of their pool and when Japan beat South Africa. Anything is possible.
“It is a sport that is trying to de-complicate itself as much as possible to get the right outcomes and speed things up a little bit. We are in a much better place than some other sports in terms of the way that is refereed and the consistency we have across the board.
“What we would love to see is some running rugby played and some exciting games but we have to also appreciate that in rugby it doesn’t always mean tries being scored to make it exciting. It can be a great game where a team only scores one or two tries each. It is a game that is as much about the quality of defence as it is about the quality of the attack.”
It’s now 12 years since Dallaglio earned the last of his 85 England caps, coming off the bench in the 2007 World Cup final defeat to South Africa in Paris, but the Londoner has remained grateful for the opportunities the sport provided him, so much so that rugby’s ethics are at the heart his RugbyWorks Foundation.
Its aim is simple – to tackle the issue of an average 2,720 young people between the ages of 14 and 16 being excluded on an annual basis from mainstream eduction in the UK. “Rugby has given me an awful lot in my life and I just felt when I retired that it was important that I find an opportunity to give something back to those who maybe aren’t as fortunate as us.
“Rugby has been good to me. It helped me at a difficult time in my life, it gave me a school system, a family and a set of values to build things around and that is where it came from really. It is just using the power of rugby to create positive outcomes for young people by giving them those opportunities.
It’s #InternationalDayOfCharity!
?? Find out more from @dallaglio8 and others about our vital work supporting the lives of young people in alternative provision through this fantastic film. pic.twitter.com/qL0XEusGiJ
— Dallaglio RugbyWorks (@DallaglioRW) September 5, 2019
“It’s a very serious topic, a very serious problem in areas, not just in the UK but all over the world. The gap between the people that have and the people that don’t have is getting bigger and there is an obligation on us.
“If I was 14 and I didn’t have someone looking after me or supporting me, would I want someone to come in and help me? The answer is yes, of course. You can use the values around rugby, around teamwork, respect, sportsmanship, enjoyment and discipline… and that is certainly what I have been trying to do through RugbyWorks.
“I’m very proud of what we have achieved. We are working in over 80 schools around the country working with people who have been permanently excluded from mainstream. But people continue to be excluded every single day so it is certainly not going away.”
WATCH: Lawrence Dallaglio and a number of other Land Rover ambassadors preview the 2019 World Cup
Land Rover is an official worldwide partner of Rugby World Cup 2019. With over 20 years of heritage supporting rugby at all levels, Land Rover is celebrating what makes rugby, rugby. #LandRoverRugby
Comments on RugbyPass
Bulls by 5. Plus another 50.
3 Go to commentsJohan Goosen avatar. Cute. Surely someone at RP knows how to do a google image search?
3 Go to commentsCan’t these games play a little earlier? Asking for a friend.
3 Go to commentsIt’s impressive that we can see huge stadiums with attendance in the 40 000 to 50 000 region. It shows how popular this competition is becoming. What is even more impressive is the massive growth in broadcast viewership. The URC is one of the two best leagues in the World, the other being the Top14.
7 Go to commentsChristie is not Sottish, like the majority of the Scotland team.
2 Go to commentsHold the phone, decline over-rated. Is it a one game, dead cat bounce or the real thing? Has the Penney dropped? Stay tuned.
45 Go to commentsTotally deserved win for the Crusaders Far smarter than the Chiefs who seem to be avoiding the basics when it matters Hotham showed them what was missing and Hannah seems a real find - a tad light but that can be fixed over time
8 Go to commentsGreat insight into the performance culture with Sarries and I predict Christie will be a fixture in the Scotland team now for some time to come. However, he is slightly missing his own point around Scotland “being soft” when he cites physicality examples in defence of that slight. The issue is much closer to the example he referenced around feeling off before a game but being told “it doesn’t matter, you can still play well” by Farrell. Until Scotland can get their psyche in that square, they will carry on folding under extreme pressure…
2 Go to comments> We are having to adapt, evolve and innovate more than when we were in Super Rugby where there was only really one style that everybody had to play to gain the most success. Have = able to? Interesting what that one style might be? I thought SA sides still had bad tours now, or at least bad schedule, months away? Those extra few hours flights have to be a killer though, no surprise to see their sides doing so badly at the start of the season each year. I wouldn’t enjoy that unfairness as a supporter.
7 Go to commentsThe problem for NZ, and Aus, is they ripped up the SR model and lost a massive chunk of revenue that hasn’t been replaced. Don’t forget SA clubs went North because they were left with no choice, Argy unceremoniously binned and Japan cast adrift. Now SR wasn’t perfect, far from it, but they’ve jumped into something without an effective plan, so far, to replace what they’ve lost. The biggest revenue potential now lies in Japan but it won’t be easy or quick to unlock, they are incredibly insular in culture as a nation. In the meantime, there is a serious time bomb sitting under SH rugby and if it happens then the current financial challenges will look like a picnic. IF the Boks follow their provincial teams and head north then it’s revenue meltdown. Not guaranteed to happen but the status quo is a very odd hybrid, with the Boks pointing one way and the clubs pointing the other way. And for as long as that remains then the threat is real.
45 Go to commentsI think Etene has had some good tuition, likely while at the Warriors to be a professional that helped his rugby jump, but he was certainly thrown in the deep end way too early. Should have arguably 20 less SR caps, and therefor a way better record that he does at his age, but his development would have been fast tracked by the need to satiate his signing away from league. Again, credit to him and others that he has done it so well. Easy to fall over under that pressure in the big leagues like that but he kept at it when I myself wasn’t sure he was good enough.
1 Go to commentsAwesome story. I wonder what a bigger American (SA) scene might have mean for Brex.
1 Go to comments“Johnny McNicholl and the Crusaders” save a Penney. Who has been in camp this week and showed them how to play?
8 Go to commentsSo, reports of the Crusaders’ demise / terminal decline are perhaps just - slightly - premature/exaggerated…? 🤔 Will we see a deep-dive into that by the estimable Rugbypass scribes, and maybe one or two mea culpas? Thought not.
8 Go to comments1. The Chiefs are rudderless without DMac, which enhances his AB chances 2. Chiefs pack are powderpuffs. The hard men arent there anymore 3. They had their golden title chance last yr and wont threaten this yr. Gone in second round of playoffs.
8 Go to commentsHonestly, why did you have to publish such a foolish article the day they play us? 😂
45 Go to comments> They are not standalone entities. They are linked to an amateur association which holds the FFR licence that allows the professional side to compete in the league. That’s a great rule. This looks like the chicken or egg professional scenario. How long is it going to be before the club can break even (if that is even a thing in French rugby)? If the locals aren’t into well it would be good to se them drop to amateur level (is it that far?). Hope they can reset from this level and be more practical, there will be a time when they can rebuild (if France has there setup right).
1 Go to commentsWhat about changing the ball? To something heavier and more pointed that bounces unpredictably. Not this almost round football used these days.
35 Go to commentsThis is the problem with conservative mindsets and phycology, and homogenous sports, everybody wants to be the same, use the i-win template. Athlete wise everyone has to have muscles and work at the gym to make themselves more likely to hold on that one tackle. Do those players even wonder if they are now more likely to be tackled by that player as a result of there “work”? Really though, too many questions, Jake. Is it better Jake? Yes, because you still have that rugby of ole that you talk about. Is it at the highest International level anymore? No, but you go to your club or checkout your representative side and still engage with that ‘beautiful game’. Could you also have a bit of that at the top if coaches encouraged there team to play and incentivized players like Damian McKenzie and Ange Capuozzo? Of course we could. Sadly Rugby doesn’t, or didn’t, really know what direction to go when professionalism came. Things like the state of northern pitches didn’t help. Over the last two or three decades I feel like I’ve been fortunate to have all that Jake wants. There was International quality Super Rugby to adore, then the next level below I could watch club mates, pulling 9 to 5s, take on the countries best in representative rugby. Rugby played with flair and not too much riding on the consequences. It was beautiful. That largely still exists today, but with the world of rugby not quite getting things right, the picture is now being painted in NZ that that level of rugby is not required in the “pathway” to Super Rugby or All Black rugby. You might wonder if NZR is right and the pathway shouldn’t include the ‘amateur’, but let me tell you, even though the NPC might be made up of people still having to pull 9-5s, we know these people still have dreams to get out of that, and aren’t likely to give them. They will be lost. That will put a real strain on the concept of whether “visceral thrill, derring-do and joyful abandon” type rugby will remain under the professional level here in NZ. I think at some point that can be eroded as well. If only wanting the best athlete’s at the top level wasn’t enough to lose that, shutting off the next group, or level, or rugby players from easy access to express and showcase themselves certainly will. That all comes back around to the same question of professionalism in rugby and whether it got things right, and rugby is better now. Maybe the answer is turning into a “no”?
35 Go to commentsWow, didn’t realise there was such apathy to URC in SA, or by Champions Cup teams. Just read Nick’s article on Crusaders, are Sharks a similar circumstance? I think SA rugby has been far more balanced than NZs, no?
4 Go to comments