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'He's got to start': The All Blacks rookies who could force Ardie Savea onto the bench
Are the All Blacks missing genuine enforcers at both blindside flanker and No. 8?
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It’s a question that seems to be on some Kiwi fans’ minds in the wake of New Zealand’s shock 25-15 Tri Nations defeat at the hands of Argentina in Sydney on Saturday.
All Blacks head coach Ian Foster has primarily used Shannon Frizell at blindside flanker and Ardie Savea at No. 8 in his first few matches in his new job, with the pair starting in their respective roles in four out of a possible five tests.
As has been widely discussed in recent days, the pair and their teammates have endured mixed results across those matches, picking up just two wins, a draw and two losses.
To make matters worse, the defeat to the Pumas at Bankwest Stadium condemned the All Blacks to not only their first-ever loss to the Argentinians, but also the first time the New Zealanders have lost back-to-back tests in nine years.
However, it was the manner in which the All Blacks lost that was the most alarming aspect of the result, as the Pumas forward pack were far more determined, clinical, passionate, accurate and tenacious than their counterparts.
A performance of that quality a week after the All Blacks were upset 24-22 by the Wallabies in Brisbane has led to questions being asked over the selection of the team.
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Speaking on the Aotearoa Rugby Pod, Sky Sport rugby commentator Jeff McTainsh pointed to the make-up of New Zealand’s loose forward trio, opining that the All Blacks are missing a sizeable figure in the ilk of ex-All Blacks enforcer Liam Squire.
“I think there’s been a lot talked about the All Blacks loose forward trio and whether we’re missing a big body,” McTainsh said.
“I just feel like, whether he does come back into the mix at some point, we do need a big weapon like a Liam Squire.”
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Although he leapt to the defence of Frizell, who has come under criticism for his lack of discipline against Argentina, and his efforts thus far this year, fellow panellist and two-test All Blacks hooker James Parsons highlighted his Blues teammate Akira Ioane as someone capable of filling the role left by Squire.
“I’m going to be biased, and everyone will come at me again, but Akira Ioane was very effective in his 28 minutes, so I think we could see, potentially, him getting another opportunity to be that explosive [player], because he is an explosive customer,” Parsons said.
“He’s got the genetics to be as explosive as Liam Squire, and he just needs to be given a go, and he’s been given 28 minutes, but I’d like to see him get a big crack.”
Three years after making his All Blacks debut in a non-test against a French XV in Lyon, Ioane made his full test debut at blindside flanker against the Wallabies in the Brisbane loss.
Standing out through his work ethic, defence, ball-carrying, lineout jumping and ability at the breakdown inside the first half, many have called for Ioane to be given another chance after he was forced to leave the field after 28 minutes in that match due to Ofa Tuungafasi’s red card.
Just as impressive has been fellow international rookie Hoskins Sotutu, who has been a regular off the bench for the All Blacks this season after starring for the Blues throughout Super Rugby Aotearoa.
That form was recognised by Parsons, who noted that Sotutu’s impact off the bench as an attacking threat off the back of the scrum against Argentina showed how good of a player he can be.
“I’ve been speaking about that quick hook and go with Hoskins. Did you see how effective it was? The blindside flanker was still scrumming, and he’s gone,” Parsons said.
“It’s one of the most effective attacking weapons and that’s what makes him such a great No. 8 option. He’s great in the lineout, he’s great in the carry. His run metres for the time he was on the field are pretty impressive.”
Between Ioane and Sotutu, McTainsh went as far to suggest Savea’s place in New Zealand’s starting XV could come under threat when the All Blacks face off against the Pumas in their final test of the year in Newcastle next weekend.
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“What we have to go with is giving guys game time and realise we are going through a bit of a rebuilding phase,” McTainsh told the Aotearoa Rugby Pod.
“You’ve got Sam [Cane] there, you’ve got Ardie, you’ve got Shannon, but you’ve got a guy in Hoskins Sotutu as well that needs game time needs to develop. Akira obviously has been given another crack to show his wears, so it’s finding the mix.
“Ardie Savea, does he belong at the back of the scrum? I’m not 100 percent sure. I think he’s more on the side, so I think that’s the area they’ve got to make a decision on, really.”
When pressed further on the issue, McTainsh added: “At the end of Super Rugby, people I was talking to were saying he’s [Sotutu] got to start for the All Blacks.
“That was some of the chat, start for the All Blacks, so now is it a case of do we play him at No. 8 and you do your someone like Ardie off the bench and you have Sam at No. 7 and Shannon at No. 6? What do you do?”
To drop Savea, a nominee for World Rugby Player of the Year in 2019, from the starting All Blacks side would be a big statement of intent from Foster, who is under immense public pressure following the loss to Argentina.
However, Parsons was quick to endorse Savea’s ability, and hinted that New Zealand’s depth of loose forward talent should ease any concern about the rut the All Blacks currently find themselves in.
“Ardie’s so immense though as well. We’ve got a lot of like-for-like players, I suppose. I think we’ve got an abundance of talent in the loose forwards, because this is how hard it is to pick it.”
Following this week’s bye, Foster will announce his All Blacks side to play Argentina at McDonald Jones Stadium next Thursday.
Listen to the latest episode of the Aotearoa Rugby Pod below:
Comments on RugbyPass
Ardie’s preferred position 7? Where do they get these writers from? I've no idea where he's playing in Japan, but the previous two seasons he wore the 7 jersey exactly twice.
17 Go to commentsNot good to hear Ulster described as “financially troubled”. Did not think it was getting to that level. I would hope the Irish system of spreading players of talent away from Leinster would kick in now. Better to have a Leinster fringe player with Ulster or Connacht, then getting only a few games a season in Dublin. 10, for example, would seem to be a case for spreading the talent. I would not be at all adverse to a SA man coming in as head coach/DR. Ludeke is worth trying. Certainly got a long and impressive coaching career at this level…..149 games in SR, then Japan, 30 years experience. And Ulster’s ledger of successful SA coaches and players is on the positive side. Is talk of Ruan Pienaar interested in coming back as a coach…..could be a good combination with Ludeke. And Pienaar and family would have no settling in to do, one would judge. He loved life in Ulster when there, by all reports.
1 Go to commentsSome thoughts to consider here, Sam. Thanks
2 Go to commentsI think he is right, SBW is respected in RSA. The guy who never stood up is a worm. Sseems lots of NZ SBW hate, you do the crime do the time.
11 Go to commentsAfter missing the curfew, the player was simply too “Shagged” to stand up.
11 Go to commentsVernier is probably the best 12 in the world though she has some English competition these days . I am nervous for England because it is unpredictable France and who knows which team will turn up, but they have not yet shown anything that should worry England, Saturday could be a different day. I would be more confident against the BFs.
1 Go to commentsWhat a difference Rodda and Carter made. Rodda has been out for ages but he is really the only world class lock in Australian rugby. Him, Carter and Beale made a huge difference on the weekend. If only they had a few decent props they’d be a much more dangerous team. Hamish Stewart was excellent last week as well. His carrying has improved significantly and has to be next in line after Paisami at 12 for the Wallabies. He’ll benefit hugely with Beale at fullback, there’s just no better communicator in Australian rugby than him and his experience will make a huge difference for the Force. No one sees space like Beale and he’s still sharp. I can see Force making a late charge into the top 8 if they can get some consistency.
2 Go to commentsRodda will be a walk up starter at lock. Frost if you analyse his dominance has little impact and he’s a long way from being physical enough, especially when you compare to Rodda and the work he does. He was quite poor at the World Cup in his lack of physicality. Between Rodda and Skelton we would have locks who can dominate the breakdown and in contact. Frost is maybe next but Schmidt might go for a more physical lock who does their core work better like Ryan or LSL. Swain is no chance unless there’s a load of injuries. Pollard hasn’t got the scrum ability yet to be considered. Nasser dominated him when they went toe to toe and really showed him up. Picking Skelton effects who can play 6 and 8. Ideally Valetini would play 6 as that’s his best position and Wilson at 8 but that’s not ideal for lineout success. Cale isn’t physical enough yet in contact and defence but is the best backrow lineout jumper followed by Wright, Hanigan and Swinton so unfortunately Valetini probably will start at 8 with Wright or Hanigan at 6. Wilson on the bench, he’s got too much quality not to be in the squad. Paisami is leading the way at 12 but Hamish Stewart is playing extremely well also and his ball carrying has improved significantly. Beale is also another option based on the weekend. Beale is class but he’s also the best communicator of any Australian backline player and that can’t be underestimated, he’ll be in the mix.
8 Go to commentsWhy do people keep on picking Ardie at 7 when he's a ball in hand 8? A modern 7 is the lead tackler and ruck clearer which isn't his strength.
14 Go to commentsSly dig there at Ireland’s propensity to back a non-Irish coach. Must really want it. I’m not sure I like ROG very much. Comes off as unpleasant. But he’d gain my respect if he took a number 7 ranked team and turned them into WC winners. Not even back-to-back. Argentina? Scotland? Or how about Wales? France would be too easy, no?
1 Go to commentsA bit of sensationalism, but surprised by the comments about SBW. I’ve always thought of him as a pretty authentic person. There is nothing worse than working with a colleague you’ve seen straight through.
11 Go to comments100% agree with your comment about Touch. I’ve been playing it competitively since Covid. It’s on a Wednesday night after work. It means the weekend is free for time with my family.
2 Go to commentsRodda back is massively important for the Wallabies. Kaitu at hooker important too coz he was very good a few years ago.
2 Go to commentsThe pink cabous might be eligible this year and the Boks don’t need him
8 Go to commentsNasser and kaitu are options for hooker. Especially Nasser. You forgot Rodda who touch wood will be fit at test time and if fit he’s number one. Great partner for the great Skelton and Oz best lineout caller. Third best lock is LSL whom I’d be inclined to sub on for Skelton around 60 minutes. Probably start valetini at 8 because I like a big body back there. Cale should play 6 at the brumbies. For Wallabies definitely cale in the squad but as an apprentice. Dunno who starts at 6 seru wright Swinton hanigan with Will Harris and Harry Wilson not far away. Seru and Swinton my front runners but Swinton is going. Still if we don’t cap seru then Fiji must coz they need his lineout skills and easily compensate for his lack of weight
8 Go to commentsYeah but who was it?
11 Go to commentsThink you might have written this just before the Brumbies got thrashed last weekend
8 Go to commentsI really do believe that Billy Proctor should be selected at least in the larger squad but also it would be my choice at 13, much more a center than Ioane who can still play at wing. Roigard if fit should play, otherwise it should be Perenara or Christie. Also, Iose could deserve a spot at blindside. Of course, being a Canes supporter I’m biased but I really believe that at least Billy P is deserving a chance and being Holland one of the Selectors, I’m having a little hope he could grab it.
14 Go to commentsI would not play Swinton I’d pick Wright or Hanigan. The rest are decent starters, but can’t agree on any subs except Tupou. My take on the subs: Gibbon, Ueslese, Tupou, LSL, Wilson, White, Will Harrison, and Petaia.
8 Go to commentsSBW the biggest moron to pull on a black jersey a park footy player at best
11 Go to comments