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Five takeaways from Leinster's reality check loss to the Bulls

Caelan Doris of Leinster, centre, and teammates after their side's defeat in the United Rugby Championship semi-final match between Vodacom Bulls and Leinster at Loftus Versfeld Stadium in Pretoria, South Africa. (Photo By Shaun Roy/Sportsfile via Getty Images)

Another weekend, another Leinster loss in a big knockout match. Three seasons now Leinster have been the best team in the URC and arguably Europe, before dropping the metaphorical ball when it mattered most.

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Huge credit must go to Jake White’s Bulls, who outfoxed Leo Cullen and Jacques Nienaber’s men in the strategy department and who deserve all the plaudits in the world for a gutsy and well-deserved win over the perennial URC top dogs.

Yet Leinster’s Gordian knot must also be tackled. This well-resourced team – with some of the best players in the world to call upon – has once again fluffed their lines.

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Jake White talks about what the semifinal victory means to him

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    Jake White talks about what the semifinal victory means to him

    Here we look at five Leinster takeaways following their 25-20 loss to Bulls in Pretoria.

    Lack of South African experience
    The RTE panel pulled up a remarkable stat prior to kick-off in Pretoria on Saturday. Just two of Leinster’s starting 15 had prior experience of playing URC matches in South Africa.

    Leinster have been sending their B team south over the last few seasons and the lack of experience among the front-liners on the road may have come back to bite them on the arse here.

    Often treated to knockout to matches at the Aviva Stadium – a so-called neutral venue for much of their European assignments – Cullen’s A-listers are light on experience when it comes to winning on the road against serious operators like the Bulls, and that’s before you consider altitude. As the infamous sign at Loftus attests: ‘Altitude. 1350m. It matters.’

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    Head-to-Head

    Last 5 Meetings

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    4
    Draws
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    Wins
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    Average Points scored
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    First try wins
    40%
    Home team wins
    80%

    Simply put, the IRFU’s new Performance Director David Humphries needs to address the ‘cotton-wooling’ of players at provincial level. Player welfare is all well and good but Leinster must strike a balance with their Test players. The risk is they become more mollycoddled than battle-hardened at the sharp end of the season.

    Missing Hugo
    While Leinster certainly knew that they would miss Hugo Keenan when it was announced that he was going to join the Ireland Sevens team in time for the Olympics, they can’t possibly have imagined how much the absence of the fullback would hamper them over the last two weekends.

    Leinster’s back three is a very different proposition without Keenan and the Bulls ruthlessly exploited this at Loftus, peppering Jimmy O’Brien, James Lowe and Jordan Larmour with kicks all afternoon. The tactic worked, with Leinster effectively pinned back for much for the 80 minutes and left trying to kick their way out of trouble.

    Leinster Champions Cup final team
    Hugo Keenan will start for Leinster versus Toulouse (Photo by Harry Murphy/Sportsfile via Getty Images)
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    O’Brien is a fine utility player who can cover a multitude of positions, but he’s not at Keenan’s level, and the backfield looks unsettled as a result. O’Brien was ultimately eclipsed by Springboks’ fullback Willie Le Roux on Saturday, who was superb before being taken off.

    Scrum reality check
    Maybe the biggest concern for Leinster and therefore Ireland going forward are the glaring cracks that are starting to appear in the scrum.

    The Bulls obliterated Ireland’s front row on Saturday in a manner that hasn’t been seen since England’s 2012 Six Nations dismantling of Tom Court and co at Twickenham. Wilco Louw bullied Andrew Porter – normally an immovable force on the loosehead side of the scrum and certainly Leinster’s best scrummager – repeatedly splitting his and Sheehan’s bind down the middle.

    Meanwhile, Tadhg Furlong’s scrummaging malaise can no longer be ignored.

    Tadhg Furlong
    NANTES, FRANCE – SEPTEMBER 16: Tadhg Furlong of Ireland looks on at full-time following the Rugby World Cup France 2023 match between Ireland and Tonga at Stade de la Beaujoire on September 16, 2023 in Nantes, France. (Photo by David Ramos – World Rugby/World Rugby via Getty Images)

    The 31-year-old may be the finest tighthead Ireland have ever produced but there’s no getting away from the decline in this area of his game over the last two seasons. When Ireland’s scrum has been dominant, it’s almost always on Porter’s side. While Furlong’s carrying is one of the great sights in rugby union, his scrummaging is starting to bear more resemblance to former Ireland tighthead John Hayes, where parity at setpiece was the best-case scenario.

    There are no clear alternatives to Porter and Furlong for Leinster or Ireland, who are among the first names on the teamsheet when fit. The rather obvious question is if the Bulls could do this to the Leinster scrum, what will the Boks do to Ireland’s next month?

    Attacking bluntness
    The acquisition of defensive mastermind Jacques Nienaber was rightly celebrated last year, but Leinster are keenly feeling the loss of Stuart Lancaster in attack.

    The Irish province’s famous attack has looked decidedly blunt this season. With Nienaber charged with shoring up the blue wall in defence, the attack has become more reliant on the odd moment of individual brilliance for results rather than any apparent grand plan from management.

    Leinster’s offence lacks the cutting edge that Andy Farrell’s Ireland so effortlessly conjures from the same set of players. Admittedly, the absence of Garry Ringrose for much of the season with injury and Test duty hasn’t helped matters. The regular midfield of Robbie Henshaw and rookie Jamie Osborne – while physically imposing – feels a little one-note.

    Tyler Bleyendaal
    Tyler Bleyendaal during Munster Rugby Squad Training at University of Limerick in Limerick. (Photo By Piaras Ó Mídheach/Sportsfile via Getty Images)

    The addition of attack coach Tyler Bleyendaal and All Blacks superstar Jordie Barrett next season couldn’t come sooner, as a step change in attack is badly needed.

    The search for Johnny Sexton’s heir goes on
    Leinster have circled the wagons all season around the oft-criticised Ross Byrne, their increasingly embattled flyhalf.

    You can’t help but feel for Byrne. Johnny Sexton’s boots were always going to be a struggle to fill and no Leinster fan was expecting miracles. Yet, Byrne, a competent standoff with a reliable boot, just isn’t cutting the mustard. He lacks the presence that makes great tens stand out and the 29-year-old possesses next to no threat when bringing the ball to the line.

    Leinster with Byrne at the wheel too often feel plodding and predictable.

    Leinster
    Ross Byrne of Leinster, bottom, looks on during the Investec Champions Cup final between Leinster and Toulouse at the Tottenham Hotspur Stadium in London, England. (Photo By Harry Murphy/Sportsfile via Getty Images)

    The broad consensus among Leinster fans is that one of either Ciaran Frawley or Sam Prendergast need to be fast-tracked at 10, yet Cullen and co haven’t got the memo. Both need more playing time but Cullen – in an apparent bid to keep all four of his flyhalves (let us not forget Harry Byrne) happy – has been left doling out scraps of game time to the understudies, while preferring Ross Byrne in the big games.

    Cullen must now give someone else a meaningful run at ten, even if that means hurting players’ feelings.

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    Comments

    7 Comments
    C
    Craig 291 days ago

    It’s all good for rugby guys.
    That's why there is so much more interest now.
    Fans enjoy it so much when it’s so competitive in a tournament

    S
    Simon 291 days ago

    Porter scrummages illegally and against weaker tight heads, gets away with the illusion of being dominant. In reality he turns in immediately after contact and therefore does not give the tighthead a shoulder to scrummage against. The result is either a penalty for a collapse or the scrum moves forward and another penalty advantage is gained. Lowe is a beast and did not allow Porter to turn in on contact and when this happens we all can see how ineffective the Irish scrum is with Furlong no longer able to perform at this level.
    Hopefully other coaches will see this and get their tightheads to dominate the hit against Porter and thereby nullify the Irish scrum as a tactic for gaining penalties.
    And we have seen in the last 3 years that when opposition forwards get physical with Leinster, they cannot cope and resort to giving away penalties and losing breakdown after breakdown.
    The blueprint for coaches is there on how to beat Leinster and Ireland.

    L
    Liam 291 days ago

    I genuinely thought a lot of irelands choking was down to jonny, but seems it's wider than his petulance and entitlement.

    S
    Steve 291 days ago

    And not (really!) wishing to put the boot in, Leinster were actually lucky to get away with just a five-point loss, when it should probably have been fifteen or twenty, thanks to one of the worst reffing (including the apparently non-existent TMO) displays I've seen since Bryce Lawrence disgracefully non-whistled the Boks out of the 2011 RWC in order to let the very unsuccessful ABs finally win one after 20 years. Grove-White was absolutely and utterly useless (or corrupt!!) and should never be allowed to ref another major game like Saturday's until he's been through a re-education course (like those silly speed awareness ones they have in the UK) and learn, for example, that if you allow advantage for a penalty, you go back for the thing if the resulting move breaks down!

    F
    Frank 291 days ago

    Keenan is possibly the best fullback in the world and would be a massive loss to any side. Porter being found out is no real surprise. He's all brawn and little brain. Furlong has been a dwindling force, but thought a huge game like this would have brought out a better performance. Being a bedrock of pack dominance for some time, it may well be time for a rethink.

    J
    John 291 days ago

    Certainly some of what is listed here is true. Cracks have not started to appear in the scrum though. They have been wide open for quite a while. One immediate improvement that can be made is to replace Ross Byrne at OH in big games. He isn’t quite good enough and is a bit of a weak link in those games. Sam Prendergast will hopefully provide the answer but if not quite yet it should be Frawley. There also needs to be a fresh influx of players and the Irish U20 team of the past 3 seasons has been dominant. Some of those players need to start filtering through now as there a number of players who have had their chances and not been able to get the team over the line and the lineup is now a bit stale. And lastly Leinster player much better rugby under Lancaster. I was a bit worried when Nienebar came in not because I doubted his ability as a coach but because he would make the team more defensive in their play. Some would have said that’s what was needed to get over the line but it got them no closer this season just with less tries scored. Snyman and Barrett come in next season but there are further shakeups required and Leo will have ask himself if he feels he is genuinely the one to take the team to silverware.

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    f
    fl 32 minutes ago
    Why Les Kiss and Stuart Lancaster can lead Australia to glory

    “Pep didn’t win the ECL in 2009. It was 2008 with Barca”

    Why are you so insistent on being wrong? Man United won in 2008 (beating Chelsea in the final). In 2009 Barcelona won, beating United.


    “The gap between wins ignores the finals contested. 2 in 2 years with his City Triumph. The most recent put him in the elite company of managers to have won it with multiple clubs. Yet more late career success and history.”

    Again - you’re not correct. City won the CL in 2023, and made the final in 2021. Those are the only two CL finals they have made. With Barcelona, Pep made the semi final four consecutive times - with City he’s managed only 3 in 8 years. This year they didn’t even make the round of 16.


    To re-cap, you wrote that Pep “has gotten better with age. By every measure.” There are some measures that support what you’re saying, but the vast majority of the measures that you have highlighted actually show the opposite.


    I am aware Les Kiss has achieved great things in his career, but I don’t care what he did over ten years ago. Rugby was a different sport back then.


    I think your take on Gatland is pretty silly. Gatland was without Edwards in the 2013 and 2017 Lions tours and managed to do alright. You’ve also not addressed Eddie Jones.


    I agree wrt Schmidt. He would ideally be retained, but it wouldn’t work to have a remote head coach. He should definitely be hired as a consultant/analyst/selector though.


    “Look at the talent that would be discarded in Schmidt and Kiss if your age Nazism was applied.”

    lol u really need to chill out lad. Kiss and Schmidt would both be great members of the coaching set up in 2025, but it would be ridiculous to bank on either to retain the head coach role until 2031.

    170 Go to comments
    I
    IkeaBoy 1 hour ago
    Why Les Kiss and Stuart Lancaster can lead Australia to glory

    Pep didn’t win the ECL in 2009. It was 2008 with Barca. The gap between wins ignores the finals contested. 2 in 2 years with his City Triumph. The most recent put him in the elite company of managers to have won it with multiple clubs. Yet more late career success and history.


    His time with City - a lower win ratio compared to Bayern Munich as you say - includes a 100 PT season. A feat that will likely never be surpassed. I appreciate you don’t follow soccer too closely but even casual fans refer to the sport in ‘pre and post Pep’ terms and all because of what he has achieved and is continuing to achieve, late career. There is a reason that even U10’s play out from the back now at every level of the game. That’s also a fairly recent development.


    How refreshing to return to rugby on a rugby forum.


    Ireland won a long over due slam in 2009. The last embers of a golden generation was kicked on by a handful of young new players and a new senior coach. Kiss was brought in as defence coach and was the reason they won it. They’d the best defence in the game at the time. He all but invented the choke tackle. Fittingly they backed it up in the next world cup in their 2011 pool match against… Australia. The instantly iconic image of Will Genia getting rag-dolled by Stephen Ferris.


    His career since has even included director of rugby positions. He would have an extremely good idea of where the game is at and where it is going in addition to governance experience and dealings. Not least in Oz were many of the players will have come via or across Rugby League pathways.


    Gatland isn’t a valid coach to compare too. He only ever over-achieved and was barely schools level without Shaun Edwards at club or test level. His return to Wales simply exposed his limitations and a chaotic union. It wasn’t age.


    Schmidt is open to staying involved in a remote capacity which I think deserves more attention. It would be a brain drain to lose him. He stepped in to coach the ABs in the first 2022 test against Ireland when Foster was laid out with Covid. They mullered Ireland 42-19. He was still heavily involved in the RWC 2023 quarter final. Same story.


    Look at the talent that would be discarded in Schmidt and Kiss if your age Nazism was applied.

    170 Go to comments
    f
    fl 2 hours ago
    Why Les Kiss and Stuart Lancaster can lead Australia to glory

    “He won a ECL and a domestic treble at the beginning of his career.”

    He won 2 ECLs at the beginning of his career (2009, 2011). Since then he’s won 1 in 15 years.


    “He then won 3 leagues on the bounce later in his career”

    He won 3 leagues on the bounce at the start of his career too - (2009, 2010, 2011).


    If we’re judging him by champions league wins, he peaked in his late 30s, early 40s. If we’re judging him by domestic titles he’s stayed pretty consistent over his career. If we’re judging him by overall win rate he peaked at Bayern, and was better at Barcelona than at City. So no, he hasn’t gotten better by every measure.


    “You mentioned coaches were older around the mid-2010’s compared to the mid-2000’s. Robson was well above the average age you’ve given for those periods even in the 90’s when in his pomp.”

    Robson was 63-64 when he was at Barcelona, so he wasn’t very old. But yeah, he was slightly above the average age of 60 I gave for the top 4 premier league coaches in 2015, and quite a bit above the averages for 2005 and 2025.


    “Also, comparing coaches - and their experiences, achievements - at different ages is unstable. It’s not a valid way to compare and tends to torpedo your own logic when you do compare them on equal terms. I can see why you don’t like doing it.”

    Well my logic certainly hasn’t been torpedoed. Currently the most successful premier league coaches right now are younger than they were ten years ago. You can throw all the nuance at it that you want, but that fact won’t change. It’s not even clear what comparing managers “on equal terms” would even mean, or why it would be relevant to anything I’ve said.


    “You still haven’t answered why Kiss could be a risker appointment?”

    Because I’ve been talking to you about football managers. If you want to change the subject then great - I care a lot more about rugby than I do football.

    But wrt Kiss, I don’t agree that 25 years experience is actually that useful, given what a different sport rugby was 25 years ago. Obviously in theory more experience can never be a bad thing, but I think 10 years of coaching experience is actually more than enough these days. Erasmus had been a coach for 13 years when he got the SA top job. Andy Farrell had been a coach for 9 when he got the Ireland job. I don’t think anyone would say that either of them were lacking in experience.


    Now - what about coaches who do have 25+ years experience? The clearest example of that would be Eddie Jones, who started coaching 31 years ago. He did pretty well everywhere he worked until around 2021 (when he was 61), when results with England hit a sharp decline. He similarly oversaw a terrible run with Australia, and currently isn’t doing a great job with Japan.

    Another example is Warren Gatland, who also started coaching full-time 31 years ago, after 5 years as a player-coach. Gatland did pretty well everywhere he went until 2020 (when he was 56), when he did a relatively poor job with the Chiefs, before doing a pretty poor job with the Lions, and then overseeing a genuine disaster with Wales. There are very few other examples, as most coaches retire or step back into lesser roles when they enter their 60s. Mick Byrne actually has 34 years experience in coaching (but only 23 years coaching in rugby) and at 66 he’s the oldest coach of a top 10 side, and he’s actually doing really well. He goes to show that you can continue to be a good coach well into your 60s, but he seems like an outlier.


    So the point is - right now, Les Kiss looks like a pretty reliable option, but 5 years ago so did Eddie Jones and Warren Gatland before they went on to prove that coaches often decline as they get older. If Australia want Kiss as a short term appointment to take over after Schmidt leaves in the summer, I don’t think that would be a terrible idea - but NB wanted Kiss as a long term appointment starting in 2027! That’s a massive risk, given the chance that his aptitude will begin to decline.


    Its kind of analagous to how players decline. We know (for example) that a fly-half can still be world class at 38, but we also know that most fly-halves peak in their mid-to-late 20s, so it is generally considered a risk to build your game plan around someone much older than that.

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    AlanCriner 2 hours ago
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