Rainbow Cup: Ex-pros from Wales, Ireland and Scotland on what the South African teams will add
The Guinness Pro14 have today confirmed the much-anticipated news that South African sides the Bulls, Lions, Sharks and Stormers will join the league to form a new competition. The Rainbow Cup will kick-off in April and see the four South African teams join 12 Pro14 sides in a new tournament to be completed before the British and Irish Lions take on the Springboks in their summer tour.
Before the announcement had been confirmed, RugbyPass caught up with six former pros from Wales, Ireland and Scotland to get their thoughts on what the addition of those high-profile South African teams would mean for the Pro14 teams.
WALES
Tom Shanklin (Saracens, Cardiff Blues, Wales)
“I think it’s going to make it more exciting, I think it makes the competition more diverse. I think we’re getting four of the top quality South African teams, so it’s about the commercial aspect as well, about more money into the game, more money from television rights. So I think it’s going to be good.
“I think it’s going to drive the competition up, I think we’re going to get a really good standard. When you’re playing better teams, even if you lose you learn more, you up your game more. So I think it’s a good move.
“It just opens it up and makes it more exciting. A different style of rugby, a different level of rugby. And hopefully the teams in the Pro14 will up their game to that level as well.”
Shane Williams (Ospreys, Wales)
“I completely agree. It can only be a positive for the Pro14, or whatever it’s going to be (called) because you are talking quality teams that play a different style of rugby to a lot of the teams that play in the Pro14 at the moment.
“It kind of opens that game up a bit. We saw glimpses of the Cheetahs and the Kings and how they played. I actually really enjoyed watching the Cheetahs, and I feel a little bit sorry for them to be honest with you. But it is going to bring a different style of rugby to the Pro14 games. So I’m looking forward to that.
“And also, they’ve got some class players that are going to be coming over and showing their worth in this competition as well. So it can only be positive. Financially it’s going to help matters for the clubs and the regions, which is great, and it’s growing what is already a highly contested competition anyway.
'I want to see him fit and pushing people like George (North) for that shirt'https://t.co/4lBuS2Kw0k
— RugbyPass (@RugbyPass) December 22, 2020
“I love watching Super Rugby, whether it be South African teams, New Zealand or Australian teams. Obviously that’s all changed a little bit of late, but I make an effort to get up early on a Saturday morning to watch these games because I love the style in which these teams play.”
TS: “I’d love to see their faces when they turn up at Rodney Parade on a Friday night when it’s wet and cold!”
SW: “Remember Tonderai Chavhanga? He was a winger for South Africa and the Dragons signed him. He was a 10 seconds 100 metre sprinter, and you can imagine his face when he turned up for his first training session at Rodney Parade, thinking ‘I’ll get about 14 seconds for the 100 metres on this stuff!’… So yeah, you play to the conditions.”
IRELAND
Stephen Ferris (Ulster, Ireland)
“I think Ulster would have certainly been more well-equipped [for the Champions Cup this year] if they had been playing against a full strength Scarlets and a full strength Glasgow going into that Toulouse game. I have absolutely no doubt about that.
“I think when all the teams are fully loaded [in the Pro14] it certainly evens it up a bit, but if Ulster were playing week-in, week-out in the Gallagher Premiership, where would they finish at the end of the season? Munster and Leinster, where would they finish at the end of the season? It’s so professional week-in, week-out in the Gallagher Premiership, they’ve got big squads, so it’s hard to know.
“But at the same time I just think with the Pro14, we haven’t seen the best of it so far at the start of the season because teams have been so depleted [due to the international games]. And hopefully it picks up over the festive period and we do see a bit more quality. We all know that it’s there, we’ve witnessed it over the last few years.
'They are Tier 1, and everyone else is sort of Tier 2'https://t.co/1wa11TWboA
— RugbyPass (@RugbyPass) December 22, 2020
“And I certainly believe that bringing the Lions, the Sharks, the Stormers and the Bulls into this competition will bring it to a different level. Bringing World Cup winners like [Siya] Kolisi, [Duane] Vermeulen, Herschel Jantjies, whoever… The pedigree of player will go up, and I certainly think that moving forward, that’s only a good thing.”
Darren Cave (Ulster, Ireland)
“If we can get these South African teams in, I think it’s huge for the Pro14. I think one of the issues the Pro14 has had is you’re always going to struggle with a product when you have so many fixtures, when you’re playing on international weekends etc… I mean, the Gallagher Premiership, at the end of their last season, they said: We don’t want to dilute our credibility, we’re going to fulfil all our fixtures. And they actually shot themselves in the foot because they had depleted teams playing on Tuesday night, [losing by] 50 points, 40 points, and it was a bit of a mess.
“So a personal opinion, I think we might see more teams but how it’s structured, you might actually see less fixtures. Because I think that will improve the product.
“There’s always that group of fans that think, ‘Well if the Pro14 quality is not as good, why do the Pro14 teams do so well in Europe?’
'Do you be selfish? Do you think about yourself? Do you move on?' https://t.co/0RaMjsB07P
— RugbyPass (@RugbyPass) December 21, 2020
“My honest opinion, having played in it not that long ago, is that there is sort of happy medium. I think back to the times when we would have been at home to a lesser team the week before Europe, and players are getting subbed off 45 minutes in and teams are getting rotated, and you are literally preparing for Europe. Whereas the Gallagher Premiership teams, it just wasn’t the same, because they had maybe lost a couple of games early in the season and they were fighting to get back into the top six, already looking forward, whereas at Ulster we always knew we were going to get in [to the play-offs].
“So there’s a lot going on, and again, to repeat what Stevie said, from when I was a wee boy and used to go to Ravenhill, I just think the thought of getting the likes of Kolisi, Pieter Steph du Toit etc, I just think it would be unbelievable for the league, and I just so hope it happens.”
SCOTLAND
John Barclay (Glasgow, Scarlets, Edinburgh, Scotland)
“Do I think it’s good? It’s not a simple answer. I never actually made one of those trips because of injury or whatever, but I know the boys really enjoy the opportunity to travel. That’s one of the things about rugby, that you get to play in these different places.
“In terms of the impact, I don’t know how you fit it in. With more teams the logistics are a bit more complicated for me to understand, I’ll leave that to the powers that be. But if they can work out logistics and it’s not putting too much burden on players in terms of an increased number of games, then why not?
'I certainly think if you are losing players of that calibre, you need to replace them'https://t.co/DLC1sXKdSA
— RugbyPass (@RugbyPass) December 22, 2020
“I think South African rugby is definitely a certain brand, and you see a lot of South Africans over here and playing well in the Pro14. You certainly look at the guys I played with at Glasgow or Scarlets, and they never seemed to be that [negatively] affected by the conditions, even though it couldn’t have been further away from what they’re used to.
“It could be really exciting, but I don’t know how it would work. But I do think it could be a lot of fun for players to be involved in.”
Chris Paterson (Glasgow, Edinburgh, Gloucester, Scotland)
“I see it as a positive. I see more competition as a real positive thing in terms of teams, status, and also individuals as well.
“If you think individually for the players, if you are going to get the opportunity to play against some top quality players, a different brand of rugby at times, there will be bits of your own game that you find out you have to work on more when you are faced with different challenges.
“Logistically if it works out, I think it’s a real positive for the league. Potentially some big, big players in big teams who are going to have to learn as well. I mean, these guys are used to playing in a different set-up. If they did come in, they are going to have to adapt to playing new sets of teams as well.
“So I think both sides will see it as a positive.”
Tom Shanklin, Shane Williams, Stephen Ferris, Darren Cave, John Barclay and Chris Paterson will all be part of Premier Sports’ coverage of the Guinness Pro14 Christmas derbies.
Comments on RugbyPass
Thanks BeeMc! Looks like many teams need extra time to settle from the quadrennial northern migration. I think generally the quality of the Rugby has held up. Fiji has been fantastic and fun to watch
13 Go to commentsLets compare apples with apples. Lyon sent weak team the week before, but nobody raised an eyebrow. Give the South African teams a few years to build their depth, then you will be moaning that the teams are too strong.
41 Go to commentsDid footballs agents also perform the scout role at some time? I’m surprised more high profile players haven’t taken up the occupation, great way to remain in the game and use all that experience without really requiring a lot of specific expertise?
1 Go to commentsSuper rugby is struggling but that has little to do with sabbaticals. 1. Too many teams from Aust and NZ - should be 3 and 4 respectively, add in 2 from Japan, 1 possibly 2 from Argentina. 2. Inconsistent and poor refereeing, admittedly not restricted to Super rugby. Only one team was reffed at the breakdown in Reds v H’Landers match. Scrum penalty awarded in Canes v Drua when No 8 had the ball in the open with little defence nearby - ideal opportunity to play advantage. Coming back to Reds match - same scrum situation but ref played advantage - Landers made 10 yards and were penalised at the breakdown when the ref should have returned to scrum penalty. 3. Marketing is weak and losing ground to AFL and NRL. Playing 2 days compared with 4. 4. Scheduling is unattractive to family attendance. Have any franchises heard of Sundays 2pm?
11 Go to commentsAbsolutely..all they need is a chance in yhe playoffs and I bet all the other teams will be nervous…THEY KNOW HOW TO WIN IM THE PLAYOFFS..
2 Go to commentsI really hope he comes back and helps out with some coaching.
1 Go to commentsI think we are all just hoping that the Olympic 7s doesn’t suffer the same sad fate as the last RWC with the officials ruining the spectacle.
1 Go to commentsPersonally, I’ve lost the will to even be bothered about the RFU, the structure, the participants. It’s all a sham. I now simply enjoy getting a group of friends together to go and watch a few games a year in different locations (including Europe, the championship, etc). I feel extremely sorry for the real fans of these clubs who are constantly ignored by the RFU and other administrators. I feel especially sorry for the fans of clubs in the Championship who have had considerable central funding stripped away and are then expected to just take whatever the RFU put to them. Its all a sham, especially if the failed clubs are allowed to return.
9 Go to commentsI’m guessing Carl Hayman would have preferred to have stayed in NZ with benefit of hindsight. Up north there is the expectation to play twice as many games with far less ‘player management’ protocols that Paul is now criticising. Less playing through concussions means longer, healthier, careers. Carter used as the eg here by Paul, his sabbatical allowed him to play until age 37. OK its not an exact science but there is far more expectations on players who sign for Top 14 or Engl Prem clubs to get value for the huge salaries. NZR get alot wrong but keeping their best players in NZ rugby is not one of them. SA clubs are virtually devoid of their top players now, no thanks. They cant threaten the big teams in the Champions Cup, the squads have little depth. Cant see Canes/Chiefs struggling. Super has been great this year, fantastic high skill matches. Drua a fantastic addition and Jaguares will add another quality team eventually. Aus teams performing strongly and no doubt will benefit with the incentive of a Lions tour and a home RWC. Let Jordie enjoy his time with Leinster, it will allow the opportunity for another player to emerge at Canes in his absence.
11 Go to commentsLove that man, his way to despise angry little men is so funny ! 😂
4 Go to comments“South African franchises would be powerhouses if we had all our overseas based players back in situ. We would have the same unbeatable aura the Toulouses, Leinsters or Saracens of this world have had over the last decade or so.” Proof that Jake white does not understand the economics of the game in SA. Players earning abroad are not going to simply come back and represent the bulls. But they might if they have a springbok contract.
22 Go to commentsA lot of fans just joined in for the fun of it! We all admire O'Gara and what he has done for La Rochelle
4 Go to commentsThe RFU will find a way to mess this up as usual. My bet is there will be no promotion into the the Premiership, only relegation into National League One. Hopefully they won’t parachute failed clubs into the league at the expense of clubs who have battled for promotion.
9 Go to commentsWell that’s the contracts for RG and Jordie bought and paid for. Now, what are the chances we can persuade Antoine to hop over with all the extra dosh we’ll have from living at the Aviva & Croke next season…??? 🤑🤑🤑
35 Go to commentsWow, that’s incredible. Great for rugby.
35 Go to commentsYou probably read that parling is going to coach the wallaby lineout but if not before now you have.
14 Go to commentsIf someone like Leo Cullen was in O’Gara’s place I don’t hear Boo-ing. It’s not just that La Rochelle has hurt Leinster and O’Gara is their Irish boss. It’s the needle that he brings and the pantomime activity before the game around pretending that Munster were supporting LaRochelle just because O’Gara is from Cork. That’s dividing Irish provinces just to get an advantage for his French Team. He can F*ck right off with that. BOOOOO! (but not while someone is lying injured)
4 Go to commentsDid the highlanders party too hard before the game? They were the pits.
1 Go to commentsWhat a player! Not long until he’s in the England side, surely?
5 Go to commentsHe seems to have the same aura as Marcus Smith - by which I mean he’s consistently judged as if he’s several years younger than he actually is. Mngomezulu has played 24 times for the Stormers. When Pollard was his age he had played 24 times for South Africa! He has more time to develop, but he has also had time to do some developing already, and he hasn’t demonstrated nearly as much talent in that time as one would expect. If he is a generational talent, then it must be a pretty poor generation.
6 Go to comments