Ex-Lions prop fears union going down the league route to solve scrummaging 'mess'
Ex-Wales prop Dai Young – a major front row force in both rugby codes – doesn’t want the current controversy over ‘boring’ scrums to force union to adopt a league style non-contest battle for the ball. The former Wasps director of rugby played in 54 Test games for Wales and the British and Irish Lions at tighthead prop, while he also won 14 caps for Wales as a rugby league player.
Crucially, he experienced the rugby league version of a scrum with Leeds and Salford which is merely a way of restarting the game with the players spending as little time as possible in formation. In rugby union, the only regulation currently in force to deal with the timing around scrums is Law 19.4 which states: “Teams must be ready to form the scrum within 30 seconds of the mark being made. Sanction; Free kick.”
However, there is at present no time limit on resets following collapsed scrums or incorrect binding, a situation which blighted the recent restart weekend of the 2019/20 Gallagher Premiership after a five-month lockdown period. The average ‘dead time’ recorded by Opta when the ball was not in play each of Premiership matches was over an hour.
Young, who spent eight years at Wasps until earlier this year and is eager to return to coaching, told RugbyPass: “I don’t want to go down the rugby league route but we have to find a way of speeding the scrums up. We have all be watching the old games and the scrum has been changed and it doesn’t really seem to be better.
“Safety always has to be paramount but we are in the entertainment business and people want to see exciting rugby. We need to keep the scrum because it does create space on the pitch and allows all shapes and sizes to play the sport. If you go to the extremes of a rugby league scrum then that is just a restart. Prop forwards are more skilled in union compared to when I was playing, but you can still spot a prop in a team environment.
"I'm not the first person to say it – and I'm a hooker"
– Steve Diamond is the latest to voice concerns about time-consuming scrums https://t.co/AclMS1wnyh
— RugbyPass (@RugbyPass) August 18, 2020
“If we went to a league style scrum, then traditional prop forwards would be lost to the game and you would have lots of back rowers, good at ball carrying but not required to push in the set-piece. It’s difficult at the moment with the cadence being asked for by referee – you have to balance your weight, hold that weight and not pre-engage, so the longer it takes doesn’t always give you a better scrum.
“We have to speed things up. That means the scrum gets formed quicker, and players also have a responsibility. We don’t want referees to guess at the scrum and some people have suggested if it’s your ball and the scrum is reset, then you could tap and go. That means if you have a weak scrum on your ball you just collapse and then tap and go.
“We have tried a slower cadence, which hasn’t quite worked. You still want to win the hit without going through the mark. Referees do need to get stricter and rather than penalising the fourth reset scrum, why not penalise the first one?
“Plenty of ex-front row forwards have spent loads of time on scrums with World Rugby but it remains a difficult one to solve because there is no easy answer. In the last year, I have watched a lot of rugby further down the levels of the game and there isn’t as much of a problem down the pyramid. It’s more of a mess at the top of the sport.”
Sale boss Steve Diamond, a former hooker, described the current scrum as boring and as useful as King Herod was to babysitting. He said: “If you look at a lot of games over the weekend, the scrum timings of the set-up are enormous. It’s minutes. It’s crazy.
“I got some footage from 1975, 1980, 1985, 1990 and measured the scrums. They were three times quicker than now. That’s ridiculous. Where (the authorities) need to spend their attention is sorting that area out – all the resets, not in the right position. (Award a) free-kick to the other team.
“There’s no other sport in the world where you have something like a scrum, so either we take it out the game, which takes all the odd-shaped people out the game, or you have got 15 seconds to get your set-up sorted and you get on it. How many clean scrums do we see? Not many.”
In another development aimed at speeding up the sport, ex-New Zealand and Wales chief executive David Moffett told RugbyPass this week that he wants to see a new version of the sport using rules he has devised because “the scrums are a nightmare. The resets are just so boring. They eat up so much time.
“It’s the same for lineouts. The amount of time taken to throw the ball in at lineouts and get the lineout set and the amount of time it takes for a team throwing the ball in to actually get to the lineout… I mean, we’re moving away so far away from what the game should be all about.”
With rugby as a sport becoming more "complicated" and "boring" as the years have passed, an ambitious former administrator has his sights set on a new variation of the code.@TomVinicombe with the story ??https://t.co/NGwgKcwz8Q
— RugbyPass (@RugbyPass) August 18, 2020
Comments on RugbyPass
Sorry Morgan you must have been the “go to for a quote” ex player this week. Its rnd 6 and there is plenty of time to cement a starting 15 and finishing 8 so I have no such concerns.
1 Go to commentsGreat read. I wish you had done this article on the ROAR.
2 Go to commentsThe current AB coaching team is basically the Crusaders so it smacks of wanting their familiar leaders around. This is not a good look for the future of the ABs or the younger players in Super working their way up the player ladder. Razor is touted as innovative, forward looking but his early moves look like insecurity and insular, provincial thinking. He is the AB's coach not the Golden Oldies.
10 Go to commentsSimple reason for wanting him back. Robertson wants him as captain. Otherwise he wouldn’t be bothering chasing him. Not enough reason to come back just to mentor.
10 Go to commentsI had not considered this topic like this at all, brilliant read. I had been looking at his record at the Waratahs and thought it odd the Crusaders appointed him, then couple that with all that experience and talent departing and boom. They’ve got some great talent developing though, and in all honesty I don’t think anyone would be over confident taking them on in a playoff match, no matter how poor the first half of their season was. I think they can pull a game out of their ass when it counts.
2 Go to commentsNot a bad list but not Porecki and not Donaldson. Not because they are Tahs, or Ex Tahs, they are just not good enough. Edmed should be ahead. Far more potential. Wilson should be 8 and Valentini 6. Wilson needs to be told by his father and his coach, stop bloody running in to brick wall defence. You’re not playing under the genius Thorn any more. He’s a fantastic angle runner. The young new 8 from the Brumbies looks really good too. The Lonegrans are just too small for international rugby as is Paisami, as is Hamish Stewart at 12. Both great at Super Rugby level. Stewart could have been a great 10 if not for Brad Thorn. Uru should be there and so should Tupou. Tupou just needs good Australian coaching which he hasn’t been getting. I don’t think Schmidt will excite him.
2 Go to commentsIf he wants to come back then he should. He will be a major asset to the younger locks and could easily be played as an impact player off the bench coming on in the last 30. He is fit, strong and capable and has all the experience to make up for any loss in physical prowess. He could also be brought back with a view to coaching within the structures one day. Duane Vermeulen played until he was 37 or 38. He is now a roaming coach within the South African coaching structures. He was valuable in the last world cup and has been a major influence on Jasper Wiese and other young players which has helped and accelerated their development and growth. Whitelock could do the exact same thing for NZ
10 Go to commentsBrett Excellent words… finally someone (other than DC) has noted that Hanigan is very hard and very good at doing what Backrow should do… his performance via the Drua sauna was quite daunting for those on the other side… very high tackle count… carries with good end result… constant threat to make a good 20-25 meters with those long legs… providing his mass effectively to crunching the Drua pack… Finally he is returning to quality form… way to much injury time over the last 2 years… smart-strong-competent in his skills… caught every lineout throw aimed at him and delivered clean pass to whoever was down below… and he worked hard for the whole 80 minutes… Ned has to be in the top 5 for backrow honors… He knows what is required as he has been there before…
20 Go to commentsI think Sam Whitelock should not touch a return with a bargepole. He went out on a high, playing in the RWC Final. He would be coming back into a team that will be weaker than last years, and might even be struggling to win games, especially against the Boks. Stay in France, enjoy another year with Pau, playing alongside his brother.
10 Go to commentsRyan Coxon has been very impressive considering he was signed by WF as injury cover whilst Uru has been a standout for QR, surprised neither of those mentioned
2 Go to commentsIt’s the massive value he brings with regard team culture/values, preparation, etc. Can’t buy that. I’m hoping to see the young locks get their chance in the big games though.
10 Go to commentsAll good, Gregor, except that you neglected to mention Sam Darry amongst that talented pool of locks. In fact, given Hannah’s inexperience and the fact that Holland won’t be eligible until next year, Lord and Darry might be the frontrunners this year, to join Barrett, Tuipoluto, Va’ii and possibly Whitelock. In fact there might be room for all of them if Barrett played 6 (like Ollie Chessum).
10 Go to commentsHis value is stabilizing the ship 20 - 40 minutes out from the final whistle plus his valuable experience to the underlings coming through.
10 Go to commentsWhat is criminal is she acts like it's no problem her actions have have cause the Italian player to lose her playing career, lose salary, if she did this in day to day life she would be in jail, she is a complete thug!!!
3 Go to commentsCorrect me if i’m wrong but the sadas have to win all games running into the finals yeh nah?
1 Go to commentsDon’t like Diamond but the maul is a joke, the sight of a choke tackle creating a maul then players in offside positions flopping on it killing the ball but then getting the put in? Banal.
3 Go to commentsHopefully Tabai Matson returns to Crusaders as head coach next season.
1 Go to commentsstorm in a teacup really. Penalty only so play on as the try was scored. Now the real question is: why was Maitland allowed to pass the ball off the floor? That is illegal but refs never pick it up.
1 Go to commentsWhen Beauden Barrett signed his contract before the 2023 RWC to play in Japan in 2024, it was NOT part of a sabbatical agreed to with NZRU prior to his signing, as was Ardie Savea and Sam Cane. Barrett changed his mind after the fact and negotiated his return to NZ Rugby and he was given permission to be eligible for All Black selection straight away once he signed a new contract to return to the Blues in 2025. Therefore, why would anyone argue against Whitelock returning to the All Blacks straight away after his season is France is finished if he signs a new contract with NZRU which includes a Super Rugby contract in 2025? If Barrett can, Whitelock should be allowed too.
10 Go to commentsThe All Blacks will select 5 locks this season. Scott Robertson will most likely want to select 2 veteran locks who can start right away in 2024 and 3 young promising locks who he would like to be pushing hard for selection in the starting XV in two years time- 2026. Scott Barrett is a world class lock. Who would you rather start beside him this season against England, South Africa, Ireland, and France- Sam Whitelock or Patrick Tuipulotu? I would choose Whitelock over Tuipulotu all day, every day.
10 Go to comments