'Steve Borthwick is the right choice, give him some bloody time'

Ben Cohen won’t bluff. Despite all the hype about the start of the Rugby World Cup last weekend, he got his wires crossed and missed seeing England live as it happened on Saturday night. “I was training in my gym trying to get fit; I got the wrong timing,” he chuckled over Zoom to RugbyPass.

Catch-up TV, though, was a real treat and the insight that the 2003 tournament winner now has to share regarding the class of 2023 following their comprehensive 27-10 dispatching of Argentina will get the pulse of ardent English fans racing.

Negativity surrounded England all the way through their build-up to the finals in France and that doom and gloom continued on into the opening stages of their first match in Marseille with Tom Curry’s red card heightening fears that an underdog team was about to get clawed by the more fancied Pumas.

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That mauling didn’t materialise. Instead, the swinging boot of George Ford took charge and its effect left Cohen beaming and eager to see more in the weeks ahead, starting on Sunday night against Japan in Nice and then versus Chile and Samoa in Lille before a likely quarter-finals weekend in Marseille on October 14.

“Bloody well done to England,” enthused Cohen, delighted that England could finally cheer out loud following some traumatic times in the teething Steve Borthwick era. “They had lost five out of six games. To into that opening game of the World Cup and go down to 14 men, if you are Argentina you go, ‘It should be a stroll in the park’.

Points Flow Chart

England win +17

Time in lead

55

Mins in lead

5

69%

% Of Game In Lead

6%

34%

Possession Last 10 min

66%

3

Points Last 10 min

7

“But it triggered something within that England side and I have been saying for the last year with getting rid of Eddie Jones, Steve Borthwick is the right choice, give him some bloody time. Let him establish himself.

“We have got an uphill battle in this World Cup. It’s about mindset and how they could change that. Down to 14 men, staring down the barrel of a gun and another loss, they played like they had 30 men on the pitch on their side. They hit anything that moved. They had the aggression, had the urgency.

“George Ford managed the game well, which was fantastic, and another thing I had been harping on about since really when I retired is where have the drop goals gone? We have got Owen Farrell, 107 caps for England and he has dropped three drop goals. What George Ford did was keep that scoreboard ticking over; another nail in the coffin, another nail in the coffin. Nine points.

“Not only were they not normal drop goals, they were phenomenal from a distance which was fantastic. If we can take that mindset going forward into the rest of the games they can progress quite far because they have got an easier group than most. If they get to that point of winning a quarters, you are into the semis and anything can happen at that point, so the possibility of winning a World Cup is there.

“Do they have the ability to? Yes. Are they the best team in the World Cup? No. Do they have holes in their game? Yes. They don’t necessarily have too much creativity and some of their kicking options ain’t great, but let’s take the mindset as a massive positive. Let’s take the urgency as a massive positive. And I like George Ford, I like the urgency and hopefully they can crack on with that.”

It sounds like Ford should remain the England No10, according to Cohen. “We are going to get into the realms of harping on about Owen Farrell this and Owen Farrell that. The guy has been phenomenal for England, but he quite rightly got his ban. He was guilty, but he has been phenomenal for England and is a strong character.

“Owen Farrell and George Ford hasn’t really worked for me and to know that Owen Farrell isn’t going to be part of the couple of games has probably given a lot of freedom to Ford. He let the shackles off, was being himself and he enjoyed it because they had nothing to lose. They will have that same mentality going into these next few games.

“I quite like the balance of Marcus Smith on the bench. He brings excitement, he takes the ball to the line, taking people on. I like all that excitement, he brings that energy and it’s a really good balance.

Thank you all for the lovely birthday messages. Kristina and the girls have spoiled me. I’ve been wanting the @LEGO_Group titanic for years and I have finally got one. Lol. Can’t wait to build it. ???#BigKid ##Birthday #45 pic.twitter.com/hVHq2k79Aq

— Ben Cohen (@RugbyBenCohen) September 14, 2023

“Borthwick has definitely got a strategy in his mind. We have got to question that because some of the people he brought in late and started weren’t in the original squad. I just hope they keep that togetherness and mindset going and ultimately the self-belief.

“Keeping that scoreboard ticking over is really important and it’s not about champagne rugby either. It’s not about scoring tries, it’s about winning games in World Cups. It doesn’t have to be pretty, it’s about winning.

“That is why if England can get in the habit and are scraping wins, I’d take that all day long in a World Cup and we’ll build afterwards – so fingers crossed England can carry on that momentum and they should do because they have got an easier group than most.”

Being a winger, though, in Borthwick’s team is quite the challenge as they don’t get the ball out wide very often due to their very narrow attack. It’s an approach that Cohen won’t criticise, claiming the likes Jonny May just need to busy themselves in other ways. “As soon as that play starts and your strike move, your first phase, is over, I wanted to get involved. I wanted to go hunting for the ball.

“I didn’t mind running through people or running around people when I could – not now (laughs loudly) – and enjoy it. They have got that. I like Jonny May and I’m glad he is back. It would be good to get his confidence back and to use these few games to do so, get some points on the board and get tails up.

“Of course, you want the ball in space but ultimately you have just got to play to what your strengths and your capabilities are and England at the moment, if defence is winning games and you’re kicking three, six points and a drop goal now and again and you get the odd try then so be it as you win games.”

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— Cuffe & Taylor (@CuffeandTaylor) August 4, 2023

It’s 20 years since England last won all seven at the finals to be crowned champions, a milestone that will be celebrated in November when all 31 players from Clive Woodward’s squad gather for an anniversary dinner in London. Cohen can’t wait to catch up with some old pals he hasn’t seen for quite some time.

“A lot happens in 20 years. You remember people as they were so when you see them you are ‘You’ve aged’ and some better than not. It’s interesting what they have done as post-sport is a difficult place. It’s a whole new skill set, a whole new environment going into civvy street from professional sport. It’s nice to be able to catch up with the guys and see what they have been doing to reinvent themselves.”

Cohen turned 45 last Thursday and what he can’t get his head around is how so many of Woodward’s squad are now in their late 50s. “Do you know what, I didn’t realise how some of those guys were like 12 years older me? There are a few of us, Jonny (Wilkinson), Mike (Tindall), myself, Steve Thompson, Iain Balshaw were the youngest of the group and you don’t realise that (gap) at the time because they were leaders in that team, they had been around and got experiences that you followed.

“But yeah, getting into my late 30s and seeing some of these guys turning 50, and you are ‘Woah!’ I didn’t realise there was a big age gap like that. But actually when you go back to 2003 and recollect, it was all about dad’s army and these guys are old and are going to win a World Cup, all that kind of stuff, so it all relates in the end.”

Transition out of pro sport into the real world is a hot topic and Cohen, the founder of StandUp Foundation, had plenty to say. “Looking at the (2003) World Cup side I’ll say it in a nutshell quickly: A lot of those guys were amateur and had gone into professionalism and had a longer run-up to it, so they got educated, apprenticeships, ruffled their feathers, all that kind of stuff and then went into professional sport armed for civvy street if that makes sense.

“The likes of me, Steve Thompson and quite a few others were the first into professionalism really out of school, so you forwent further education and ruffling your feathers and then we’re the first out of professionalism armed with nothing – so to reinvent yourself is bloody hard. You can open doors but you are completely transparent and rugby and sport in general have a lot to answer for to manage that transition and mental health.

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“Don’t forget, in civvy street, the cream rises to the top a lot quicker than it does in sport so reward for effort is kind of not there. You know what it’s like, business deals can take five years and that can be quick in some instances, so there is a lot to grasp in civvy street, getting used, understanding yourself, the dynamics that you are in, does that need changing, you have lost all routine, so there is a lot to account for and just to be left in the lurch is wrong by a lot of sports industries or systems who should really help you manage that for a number of years because it is a frightening place.”

Cohen has had his own difficulties and yet hasn’t fared badly. “I didn’t have a bad transition,” he reckoned. “I went into something I had a huge passion for and founded my foundation in America and I went on that journey. But I have had my battles, especially mental health. Depression, sometimes it catches up with you.

“Covid had a massive impact on that but with depression, it’s a good place for a rebirth and understanding things, understanding your mind which is what I have been getting used to because we have to live with ourselves so yeah, it’s been a journey but I’m in a good place now thankfully.”

It was in 2019 when Cohen also went public with his deafness, a disability he incredibly managed to hide throughout his playing career. People thought he was rude when he was in his pomp with England when the stark reality was he simply couldn’t hear. “It’s hard with hearing,” he admitted. “You lose so much.

“You laugh when everyone else laughs, you get tired quickly, you avoid noisy places but one thing you can’t avoid is a noisy stadium and you want a noisy stadium. How do you cope? How do you make your biggest weakness in a sport that is all about communication and understanding your biggest strength? For me, I learned to do it for 20 years so it has been pretty good.”

What was Cohen’s coping mechanism? “I used to commentate out loud. Sport, especially rugby, is all about communication: where you are, how deep you are, who is inside or outside, moves, making your presence on the pitch. I’d always communicate out loud. That is the best way that I can describe it and I made everyone around me comfortable which made me comfortable and I knew what they were doing because I was shouting out loud.

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“When you don’t hear that much these are the things that you learn, so if I commentate out loud it gets me in the game but also if I run to space and I’m loud they are going to pass to the noise. I started getting multiple ball carries, picking lines and getting in the team pretty much through my communication.

“But I learned to lip read. I can’t really hear you on here right now but I can lip read, so it’s a skill you develop but in all honesty, I didn’t realise that I was actually deaf. I have got tinnitus off the chart; in fact they can’t register it. And it supersedes everything. I have got 40 per cent hearing so anything for the front of the mouth, the su, the cu, the tu, the hu and it gets noisy, I hear ma, ma, ma, ma, ma and that is how I have to piece it together.

“I didn’t realise it until after rugby. Everyone thought I was just really rude and arrogant but I just couldn’t hear them, so you kind of live with it. It is a disability but I have never let it stop me and I always wanted to be that role model that if anyone asks about a disability, you should always go and try and achieve your dreams.”

Lately, Cohen has made an acting debut in Patterns, a series about the lives of LGBTQ+ people and their allies. The ex-England player enjoyed the experience and is thrilled that rugby is a sport – especially at Rugby World Cup 2023 – with a very strong inclusivity for all message.

“Look, I’m not an actor and I would always say that. But I do a lot of work within the LGBTQ+ community. I have been in that space for the last 12 years, created a brand around it that funds organisations around LGBTQ+, bridging that gap between the gay and straight community around diversity and inclusion.

“This Patterns series for me was a great way of connecting with the community and the whole point of the episode I was in was about being a role model. I did it as a favour for a close friend. Is there a future in acting? Absolutely not. But I thoroughly enjoyed it.

“I’m really happy to see the whole approach around LGBTQ in rugby. If we look at the power and message of sport, how sport can drive a cultural change, I’m glad the French rugby union are embracing inclusivity and you should be judged on your talent and nothing like sexual orientation, race, gender, sex – that is not what rugby is about. Rugby is about being inclusive and I’m glad that they are spearheading that which is fantastic to see and long may it continue in all areas of sport.

“I love the fact that we are embracing communities, but unfortunately our news is based on bad. I love different cultures, there is so much good about different cultures, but we only hear bad about it or we promote bad about it. I’m glad we are embracing the positivity around it. I’m proud that I played rugby and that we are now at this point which is fantastic.”

• Ben Cohen was speaking with RugbyPass on behalf of SafeBettingSites.com