‘Just how rugby works’: South Africa bow out of Grand Final before semis

If you go to school in the North and rugby/tag rugby isn’t even on the PE curriculum until 12/13 as opposed to 7 or 8 in Leinster, how is that the IRFU’s fault? Even then, it’s only certain schools in the North that will offer it. On what basis would they go up to the North (strictly speaking, another country in the eyes of some) and dictate their schools programme?

The ABs used to be light years ahead of the pack because their eventual test superstars had been playing structured, competitive rugby from an average age of 5/6! On top of kicking it around the yard from the age they could walk with their rugby mad parents and older siblings.

Have you somehow gotten the impression that the Leinster system is not working for Irish rugby? What is that based on? The SARU should just stop competing because despite their back to back RWC’s, all 4 of their URC teams aren’t contesting semi-finals every year?

A couple of mining towns basically provided a Welsh team in the 70’s that were unplayable. Queensland in the old Super 10 provided the spine of an Oz team that were the first to win multiple world cups and in the same decade. The ABs population density is well documented with 35% of the population living around one city.

Is England’s match day 23 equally represented by mid-counties players, tough as nails northerners, a couple from Cornwall, a pack of manc’s and a lone Geordie? Ever?

It’s cute they won’t relegate the Falcons but has a Geordie test player ever hit 50 caps?

It’s ok not to understand geography. It’s also ok not to understand sport. Not understanding the geography of sport is something different entirely.

As things stand they are content to sit in their Dublin ivory and place an ever increasing stack of chips chasing stars when actually, it’s incumbent on them to get their sleeves rolled up and set about finding, coaching and developing another few hundred ikes (god help us…) that would be lost to rugby otherwise!!!

My point is that there isn’t currently an All-Ireland schools game and maybe that’s a trick they are missing. The provinces have a regular mini-tournament I think at U19, against each other and it happens at amateur club level. It’s not getting them at 14/15 though.

Ulster’s funding (and the other provinces) is still comparable to Leinster on a pound-for-pound basis because… it’s relative to the player size! There still aren’t enough playing the sport at age grade in Ulster. That’s still the point!

Even if you financially dope a squad it will eventually age out. You can do nothing without increased participation. That is the next step for them and still the reason for the drop off against Leinster.

My only chip from my playing days is on my knee. A big fat prop fell on me in training and that was the end of the road for me. If anything, it’s props I still have the evils for.

If I see one of those big fat puddings standing in Tesco, I always throw a pineapple or two at their big fat heads!!!! Then hide - because I’m a coward.

I’m great with the Geography. Auckland is the biggest city in Oz! You’re welcome!

I’ve a lot of time for Wilkinson. When he finally left test rugby behind and went to France he played the best rugby of his career. Exceptional tackler for a #10.

I wonder if you might just be carrying a small chip or two on those shoulders, maybe from your playing days in Ulster…?

Ps your expertise on the demographics of cities in Ireland is right up their with your kiwi georgraphy nous!

Maybe it’s a Kiwi coaching thing?😉

I think you’re right about Qld being outside RA control, which means it will be more difficult for RA to persist with its ‘Irish’ policy of talent distribution.

Of the players that are included, I guess its a no-brainer that Sela, Kpoku, & Tuipulotu are the ones to watch. I actually don’t think Kpoku has been especially great for the u20s, but obviously he’s been a key part of Racing 92’s season and is still only 19. Really hope he can rise to the occasion this summer - and returns to England before 2027. Sela seems underrated by most people. I suspect the fans banging the drum about Fasogbon don’t realise that Sela was picked ahead of him last year, despite being a year younger. He faces a struggle at senior level given the presence of Stuart, du Toit, and Griffin at but I still think he could be a real contender for the 2027 RWC squad. Obviously Tuipulotu is Tuipulotu. Next year is set to be a breakout year for him at Bath.

I would appreciate clarity on a couple of things though:

Where did I contradict myself?

Saying “Trophies matter. They matter a lot. But so does winning games. So does making finals.” is entirely compatible with ranking a team as the best - over an extended period - when they have won more games and made more finals than other comparable teams. It would be contradictory for me to say “Trophies matter. They matter a lot. But so does winning games. So does making finals.” and then completely ignore Leinster record of winning games and making finals.

“You can get frustrated and say I am not reading what you write, but when you quote me, then your first line is to say thats true (what I wrote), but by the end of the paragraph have stated something different, thats where you contradict yourself.”

What you said (that I think trophies matter) is true, in that I said “Trophies matter. They matter a lot. But so does winning games. So does making finals.”. Do you understand that Leinster won more games and made more finals than any other (URC-based) team did under the period under consideration?

“Pointless comparison on Blackburn and Tottenham to this discussion as no-one includes them on a list of the best club. I would say that Blackburns title season was better than anything Tottenham have done in the Premier League. My reference to the league was that the team who finished second over two seasons are not better than the two other teams who did win the league each time. One of the best - of course, but not the best, which is relevant to my point here about Leinster, not comparing teams who won 30 years ago against a team that never won.”

I really don’t understand why you would think that this is irrelevant. You seem to be saying that winning trophies is the only thing that matters when assessing who is the best, but doesn’t matter at all when assessing who is 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, etc.

“What I referred to in my Leinster wouldn’t say the were the best is your post earlier where you said Leinster were the best overall. You said that in two separate posts. Seasons dont work like that, they are individual. Unless the same team keeps winning then you can say they were the best over a period of time and group them, but thats not the case here.”

Well then we’ve just been talking at cross purposes. In that my position (that Leinster were the best team overall in 2022-2024) was pretty clear, and you just decided to respond to a different point (whether Leinster were the best team individually in particular years) essentially making the entire discussion completely pointless. I guess if you think that trophies are the only thing that matters then it makes sense to see the season as an individual event that culminates in a trophy (or not), whereas because I believe that trophies matter a lot, but that so does winning matches and making finals, it makes it easier for me to consider quality over an extended period.

It’s been steady decline for Ulster for some time. Their biggest problem is around the fans. They seem to think they are some under-achieving dynasty. They aren’t. They are a well supported club capable of the odd upset and routinely making the 1/4’s of the bigger comps every 2/3 seasons. Ravenhill would be a decent Friday night out but the warm, overpriced larger is often better than the stuff happening on the pitch.

Their marquee signings - which have tended to be excellent - have papered over the cracks. With their current budget they’ll have to back youth, no other option.

For me, I don’t think schools rugby in the North is on the same level as in the South. Ulster have the schools pathways and their own academies but not comparable talent.

Again, Kudos Leinster. Going straight to source with their investments.