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What Tony Johnson is hearing about the vacant All Blacks assistant role

The All Blacks coaching team (L-R) Scott Robertson, Scott Hansen, Jason Ryan, Leon MacDonald and Jason Holland watch on during the New Zealand All Blacks International Test Squad Announcement at Te Pae Christchurch Convention Centre on June 24, 2024 in Christchurch, New Zealand. (Photo by Joe Allison/Getty Images)

The All Blacks are now without two of their assistants from Scott Robertson’s initial coaching staff that was appointed two years ago, with both Leon MacDonald and Jason Holland leaving their roles from inside the camp.

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Both are attack coaches, with the most recent departure, Holland, being the team’s strike coach, helping develop ideas and strategies around set plays for this All Blacks team.

Former Crusaders assistant Tamati Ellison was elevated from his skills coach role to help with the team’s defence, while Hansen was helping with the All Blacks attack.

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Now, with the end-of-year review by New Zealand Rugby’s High Performance Manager Mike Anthony underway, it is still unknown whether there will be a coach elevated from within, or a specialist attack coach added.

Experienced commentator Tony Johnson, who commentated three of the four end-of-year Northern Tour games for the All Blacks, explains on Sport Nation Mornings with Ian Smith that he has heard something about what the All Blacks might do with their vacant attacking coach role.

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“Well, what I’ve seen and heard is that they want someone to come in with a specialist brief of dealing with how they cope with the high ball. Does that mean that whoever or whatever Jason Holland was doing, and I understand that that was, I wouldn’t say, marginalised, but it was quite a narrow focus that he ended up with, and this is where the whole structure that was set up initially.

“Remember, it was Scott Robertson, overall charge, and then he had five coaches spread out over five different roles, and of course, that changed very dramatically and pretty obviously that Leon McDonald came to the realisation that what he thought he was going to be doing and what he was actually doing weren’t the same thing, so he went.

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“I don’t know what the situation is with Jason Holland. I don’t think you step out of a job like that if you’ve been having a really great time and you’re doing everything that you thought you were going to be doing, I would have thought or maybe just felt it wasn’t the right fit. I don’t know.”

The 66-year-old broadcaster is unsure whether the team needs someone to be full time coach for the high-ball, because he feels like it may be more important to have someone to develop the All Blacks attack.

“I really don’t know, but to me that area, yes, they sure enough, they need someone, and they’re dealing with the high ball. But does that have to be a full time coach? Is there not someone who can they can bring in to help develop that skills? I think developing the team’s attack is what they need, probably more than anything else.

“Because you can see all this tremendous potential there, but whether that comes from outside, because there are limited options available, Tony Brown, the guy we all love to see there, he’s been tied up for the foreseeable future, and probably beyond the way things are going.

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“So does that person exist who can come in and make a difference? Because a lot of very good New Zealand coaches are very well set up overseas in full time jobs. As I say, it sounds to me like they are pitching for someone to come in and help them with that area that’s been such an Achilles heel, how to deal with the high ball, particularly in the face of this new law, which means that all of the advantage really is with the team kicking the ball if they can get it in the right place.”

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49 Comments
M
Mark 46 days ago

Razor has said that he is the culture coach, doesn't do any hands on coaching.

What does that mean exactly?

J
JW 46 days ago

Well they could go back to whoever the guy was from Fosters team, he’s now with four more years experience. Or just anyone with a better attack than Hollan.. sorry Hansens’ teams have had over the years.

J
John H 46 days ago

People keep saying ABs need an experienced international coach, then they say Joseph and Brown. Well Hansen was withbthosex2 when they coached Japan so there it is.

Is Brown a good coach, maybe but sometimes it depends on the cattle you have to work with and at the moment SA have the cattle

P
PMcD 46 days ago

So, they didn’t struggle dealing with the high ball in the RWC 2023 cycle but with the change of laws and playing Will Jordan at 15 and Leicester Faingaʻanuku on the wing, it has become a problem.


Hmmm, this may be a bit extreme for the AB coaches but I often found playing a full back at full back and wingers on the wing usually helped with situations like that.


I wonder if a high ball expert that came in and suggested trying Jordie Barrett back at full back with Caleb Clarke & Will Jordan on the wings would get his message through the current coaching “group think”.

J
JW 46 days ago

Jordan has always been a fullback. The change since Jordan was taking highballs at international level with ease is the NH tactic to not contest contestable kicks. We had not come across the tap back before France brought it to our shores, I’m sure it will be much more prevalent in Super Rugby next season.


This new tactic changes the contact zone completely, it means you need to jump at different points and try to gather the ball differently (as well as all the team/positional based changes)


Word on the street is that it’s not going to be a factor next year (part of typical RWC cycle cleanups for the big event), with a number of options to limit it’s use like a penalty for deliberating knocking it on when it goes forward, or others requiring the act of catching, removing caterpillars and kicks in general, or if the attacking team knocks on in the contest the scrum restart is more correctly back where possession was (back at the ruck where the kick was taken) last held (think of this as the same application restart where the player lost control of the ball, not where the ball finally hit the ground) rather than where they got a touch in the air.

T
TahiDaMaori 46 days ago

Robertson has to be the least articulate All Blacks coach ever. When it comes to talking to the media. Suppose to come in after we sacked Ian Foster .Take the All Blacks to new heights and beyond. No where near anyone would have hoped we the (All Blacks) would or should be. With the world cup draw and South Africa in the Quarter Finals. We aren't looking that good. Hopefully things can change. Tour to South Africa next year will show us. If we are going in the right direction. Or if we need a change before the RWC. Time will tell.

J
JW 46 days ago

His last couple of interviews he sounded much better to me Tahi, hopefully whatever was holding him down can be shrugged off.

G
GF 46 days ago

If you’re going to criticise someone for being inarticulate, you may want to check your own grammar and syntax…just sayin’ 😝

P
Peterjohn 46 days ago

High ball coach??? Correct me if I'm wrong aren't these professional players top in their positions from across the country.

Catching and maintaining a high ball is a fundamental skill especially for the back 3 to have relative to their position. Now if you wanna teach props how to catch them maybe you might need a coach for that, otherwise these skills should be a pre requisite to even be considered to play wing or fullback.


It's like they are regular joes but getting confused about basics.

Remember the likes of Ben Smith/ corey jane safe under the high ball and warranted their selection in the team. Where has that gone, this new style of coaching lacks due diligence and players are rewarded for doing 1 thing right despite lacking in other areas.


This is why the Abs are in the position they are in,once the benchmark now more like the bench.

j
johnz 46 days ago

If it’s a high ball expert, Cory Jane comes to mind. He’s one himself. And he’s the only NZ coach I’ve heard who can identify the problem, articulate it, and offer a solution. At least verbally, which is a big improvement on the current lot already.


Like everyone else, though, I agree they need a good attack coach, preferably with international experience. That would mean dropping Hansen, who appears to have too much power, to let someone else to run the strategy.


As Johnson rightly points out, there isn’t anyone available waiting for the AB’s call. NZR has been great at letting thier best coaches get away, while they will pay any money to keep BB.


There is one bloke underemployed though, and he’s already partly involved with the squad, Wayne Smith. He would make a fantastic swap for Hansen. He ticks all the boxes, could transform this team from incoherent on attack, to lethal. And probably sort out the defence and high ball issues at the same time.


Somebody needs to convince him to come out of semi retirement for 18 months. His country needs him.


Alas, it sounds like NZR will stick with Hansen, however. And fudge a solution with a “high ball” coach. While trying to convince us all that it will solve all the problems.

P
PMcD 46 days ago

I think this “mid cycle, end of season review” will likely feel very similar to the same cycle review when Foster was in charge and you have to admit the JS solution was a very good one, which brought them 1 point away from landing the key prize in RWC.


Having worked so well in the past, I suspect they will be looking for a similar solution this time and your idea certainly has some merit if they want the AB’s to have the best chance of success.”


It’s clear Razor has got his coaching team wrong but equally they are more competitive on the pitch, which is why I don’t see them changing Razor at this stage, so adding someone like Wayne Smith in a full time role is potentially the best you can wish for at this stage.

E
Eric Elwood 46 days ago

So the Garyowen obvs should have both an attack and defense element.

IMO retreating defenders need to almost arc around and de facto come back in through the gate to be in position to have an impromtu onside defensive structure in play.


In attack an attacking structure needs to arrive at the area of the ball drop. England use their 7 type players for the chase for this reason.


If NZ embrace this fully as an arrow for their bow then they will score a lot of tries, and prevent a lot.


It requires very mobile backrow forwards and fit backs. Plenty of time. NZ as always, have the cattle.


An optimistic way of viewing this is an area where NZ will gain on SA/Eng etc.

J
JW 46 days ago

Why NZ as apposed to anybody else? I think that would just get them upto the standard of everybody else anyway.

C
Can I have a word your Honour? 46 days ago

World Rugby also have to make the Garyowen a contest. I wasn’t a fan of the blatant blockers practically being a ‘Stationary Wall’ but in removing any ‘blockers’ it has technically turned it too much the other way into a 15v1 contest where the defending team basically has to catch the ball while the chasing team are allowed to slap it backwards. Perhaps make it only a 1v1. If there is no 1v1 contest then it is 15 Chasers ready to flatten/muller the Defender who catches the ball. It is almost an ‘intentional’ mugging.


Some of the Chasers are now also jumping into the contest with their back to the opposition which is like jumping across the line at a Line-out. How can the chaser have due-diligence to their opponent if they jump into them with their backs turned?


Similarly, too many times chasers are drawing a penalty by intentionally running into the back of the Defenders claiming ‘blocking’ when all the Defenders were doing was running back to a ‘defensive’ position be it Goal Side or not. So long as the Defender doesn’t change their line, doesn’t look over their back to see where the Chaser is etc, they shouldn’t be done for obstruction/blocking.

B
Blackmania 46 days ago

None of this will make me change my mind. What exactly is Robertson a coach of? Apparently, not much. He has delegated far too much of the actual coaching to his assistants. And if this team still looks so confused, it’s because the training lacks clarity. Scott Hansen cannot be the boss on the field while Razor is the boss behind the microphone. A head coach also needs to be on the field. He is the leader, the one who sets the main direction, who oversees everything. As long as the All Blacks staff is organized this way, with a head coach who stays off the field, it won’t work. The problem doesn’t come from the assistants but from the way responsibilities are divided within this staff.


I’m afraid NZR won’t do much, as if paralyzed by the fear of change… the status quo will only bring about this team’s decline. You’ll see…

J
JW 46 days ago

He’s not a coach Blackmania, think of him as like a CEO or Football Manager.


Agree, on the balance though.

S
SC 46 days ago

There is NOTHING wrong with a model with a head coach as overseer. Clive Woodward won a RWC being a director of rugbyin 2003. So did Rassie in 2023.


BUT if you are such a coach then you MUST choose exceptional assistant coaches for forwards, attack, and defence.


Ryan has had 3 very good seasons as Forwards coach before a slip backwards in 2025 although that slip coincided with the introduction of many new young forwards (Holland, Lakai, Parker, Lord, and Newell) playing much more rugby than anyone expected, which has value.


Scott Hansen and Jason Holland sharing attack coach has been a disaster. Maybe there will be more clarity and an improved performance with just Hansen in charge. The jury is out.


Tamati Ellison is way over his head as defence coach and should be fired and replaced with an experienced specialist defence coach.

J
Jen 46 days ago

Shambles.

J
JS 47 days ago

Attack coach is the top priority.

Dealing with the high ball is a skill. Doesn’t need a full-time coach. And yes, Hansens lack of ‘clarity’ in explaining where things are going wrong must be confusing for the players also.

P
PMcD 46 days ago

The 2023 RWC game strategy was built on playing off quick front foot ball, moving the ball just before contact and then quick pick & go on the fringes, which gave the attack more time and space, which worked well.


The change to play a bigger, power based forward game has resulted in less efficient attack and the same back line look a shadow of their former selves off slower ball and the coaching team have struggled to adapt.


There has also been a refusal to move to the 6|2 bench, which has almost become the standard for everyone else.


It’s more than a high ball coach, the game plan is lacking and selection is equally at fault.

C
C H 47 days ago

I think there’s too many cooks there who are out of their depth.

Not enough international experience to compete withe top teams

S
SC 46 days ago

You do know that, despite the media’s ignorance, Scott Hansen was one of Jamie Joseph’s assistant coaches with Japan from 2020-2023 including the 2023 RWC. That is 4 years of international coaching experience.


Jason Ryan has now been All Blacks forward coach for 4 years.


Even Scott Robertson now has 2 years of international experience.

c
ck 47 days ago

Don’t need a highball coach ,get a NRL/AFL pro to come in for a couple workshops here and there ,if razor isn’t getting sacked then sack Hansen and Ellison

J
JW 46 days ago

Yeah I certainly hope they aren’t thinking of using the tactic themselves. Still, who they hopefully have in mind is someone you want around the camp regardless.

G
Gary C 47 days ago

Agree with Tony, the attack coach is critical and the AB's have not had one this year.

Also need 3 new number 10's to direct the team.

It does not sound as if there is enough total team coordination which is required.

A captain who can articulate and inspire a game plan would be helpful too.

J
JW 46 days ago

Roigard, Sititi, Dalton, Ethan are my picks Gary.

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