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Pat Lam blasts 'archaic' process that lost the All Blacks Tony Brown

CHRISTCHURCH, NEW ZEALAND - APRIL 01: Crusaders coach Scott Robertson (L) and Highlanders coach Tony Brown (R) during the round seven Super Rugby Pacific match between the Crusaders and the Highlanders at Orangetheory Stadium on April 01, 2022 in Christchurch, New Zealand. (Photo by Hannah Peters/Getty Images)

Pat Lam has put New Zealand Rugby on blast for what he describes as “archaic” practices that he believes are holding the All Blacks back from returning to the top of the international rugby mountain.

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The former Blues and Samoa coach, who has been leading Bristol Bears since 2017, didn’t hold back in his criticisms of Kiwi administrators, reflecting on his own experience of coming close to an All Blacks gig nearly 20 years ago and suggesting the same flawed process occurred in 2023, when Scott Robertson was appointed as All Blacks head coach.

While All Blacks head coach of the day Ian Foster took issue with the timing of the appointment process, citing it as a distraction during a World Cup year, Lam’s point of contention narrowed in on what he understood to be the process’s premature factional split as it relates to the respective assistant coaching groups. The year 2007 had thrown something similar Lam’s way.

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After enjoying the mentorship of Sir Graham Henry in the early 2000s, Lam’s Auckland outfit was thriving in the NPC, and his coaching was recognised in the race for the All Blacks head coach role following the 2007 Rugby World Cup. He told Kiwi radio host Martin Devlin the story on the DSPN platform.

“One of the things that was archaic that New Zealand Rugby had, and from what I’ve heard, it still exists; I was part of it in 2007 when Robbie Deans rang me out of the blue and asked me if I could go be his assistant coach for the All Blacks. Wow. He needed to put his name into the hat,” Lam recalled.

“Now, I’ve never coached with Robbie Deans. I mean, it’s crazy. He’s going to the All Black job, and he’s asking me. But the reason he was doing it was that New Zealand Rugby wants to know what your coaching team will be before they pick it.

“And when Jamie (Joseph) and Razor (Robertson) went for it, they decided Razor is the best coach, but they still made them do the same thing.

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“The best attacking coach is Tony Brown, 100 per cent. I couldn’t believe it. And naturally, Tony went with Jamie, but Tony’s also good mates with Razor. The New Zealand Rugby Union, what they should have done is chosen who they believe is going to be the best to lead; Razor. Okay, off the back of it, who do you think is the best defence coach? Well, let’s interview and find out. Who’s the best attack coach, from everyone in New Zealand, everyone around the world? Just go methodically through it.

“In the end, Rassie saw it. Bang. Let’s get Tony Brown, put a four-year deal in front of him. And New Zealand Rugby didn’t talk to Tony Brown.

“That’s the worst thing that’s happened for New Zealand, the best thing for South Africa. Because I’ve always said this, and I’ve been up here and coached, and know a lot of the South African boys, and they’re impressive men, all they needed was to play a bit more expensive rugby.

“Some of the English guys I’ve got here, I talk about 1000 touches a week. We do so much skill work. I asked the owner to build a barn so we can work inside and improve their skills. People are waxing lyrical about our attack game, but you look at the players, we’ve got a lot of rejects. We just upskill them.

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“As I said, if the South Africans ever get upskilled to play a game outside the big bosh, which they’re good at, watch out. And Tony Brown, the Kiwi, All Black, has gone in there, and he’s doing a brilliant job for them. You can just see it, you’re watching them, ‘That’s Tony Brown’. And you know what he’s teaching them.

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“New Zealand Rugby missed out on that because of their behaviour. They still believe they are the best in the world, rather than making any changes to some of their behaviours, because I was shocked that it still happens when it happened years ago.

“Start making changes to go, ‘Right, we’re not the best in the world. We know that. We want to be the best in the world. How do we fix our development? How do we fix their competitions? How do we ensure that the All Black coach has the best possible coaching?’

“The only reason I’m saying this is because everyone’s complaining about it. But why don’t we look at that and not be afraid to make decisions?

“We used to complain about the English, and it still happens a little bit up here, that they’re the hardest people to change history; ‘That’s the way we’ve always done it’. Whereas sometimes I feel, and what I hear, that New Zealand Rugby are still making some of the same decisions that they did many years ago on some things. Of course, we change things, but we’ve got to look at how we make New Zealand the best team, and we’re not happy with second.

“But certainly, if they feel that Razor needs a stronger coaching team, well, give him every possible chance to do that.”

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50 Comments
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Hammer Head 41 days ago

I think it’s funny how TB is being pined for when the narrative coming out of the land of the long white lies at the time was that Razor was the best coach the world had yet to see on account of his winning 7 SR trophies.


I think Heyneke Meyer won one and it helped him f-ckall.


The truth is that Razor might be a great coach but he doesn’t have the personnel to dominate with on the field. And even changing coaching personnel won’t help.


There are a few good players but not enough really good players. The ABs have fallen behind teams like England and France in this regard and I suspect they’ll wind up 4th in the world by the RWC.


The factory of elite players has slowed up.

K
Koro Teeps 39 days ago

I actually think the exact opposite. I think the playing group are good enough although Mo'unga is needed at 10… but I dont think Razors coaching cartel are cutting the mustard. With the exception of Jason Ryan, the best NZ head and specialist coaches, Rennie, Brown, Schmidt, Cron, Hansen, Hoeft, Matson, Lam, MacDonald… the list goes on…. Are all plying their trade overseas. Some of those coaches refuse to engage with NZR. And we arent playing our best players….Frizzel, Mo'unga… even Retallick and Smith would still be worthy of the 23…. While Scott Barrett keeps getting selected ahead of genuine test sized athletic locks.

O
OutRun22 44 days ago

He’s only pointing out what every one in the world knew in the first place except for ‘move like an iceberg NZRU’ great interview it was. We needed that as well as Jamie Joseph/pat Lam in the coaching mix(pretty hard for him to be involved )but the point is woke robertson has been found wanting for the first 2 years. unwanted records like in wellington. I was asking for Austin Pichot as irb head. I was asking for Jamie Joseph as AB coach. it never happened and now nz public (including the baffling love affair with woke robertson)have to put up with mediocrity. People think the nz public is so hard on nz rugby. But its simply cos the other bigger nations have more room for failure they have way more people, players, better competitions , better conveyor belts for players coming through, they have the support. French clubs own the players they can afford to fk up. So when we kiwis can see the bleeding obvious then the nzru go the other way then its why you hear complaints. Having said that the top team has not performed and thats on them the players/coach yes he has to take the blame also since he picks the likes of a mcalister a hooker who is totally out of his depth, a slow ponderous unskilled hooker. instead of using George bell straight away he waits?

O
Over the sideline 44 days ago

Pat Lam has not been involved in NZ rugby since 2012. You know nothing Pat so just keep quiet.

H
Hellhound 42 days ago

You have NEVER been involved with NZRU, yet you claim to know better than those who were and knows galaxies more than you. Maybe you should be the one to shut up.

C
CO 44 days ago

As a former Allblack and proven high level coach I think he knows enough. Tony Brown should be in the Allblacks coaching setup, it's disastrous he's in the Boks setup instead as the Allblacks are riddled with assistant coaching mediocrity.

J
JW 45 days ago

Pat Lam’s about as outdated as the rest. Did you ever stop and think Pat that perhaps NZR wanted you and thats why Deans decided you might be good for his team?


Guess what, Tony Brown was waiting for Razors call after he beat out Jamie.

“The best attacking coach is Tony Brown, 100 per cent.

No Pat, not a hundy. TB was out of favour after a couple of poor Super seasons. NZR appoint the coach, not Razor. Razor will have lined up Leon in 2022 in the emergency take over, no doubt he was loyal enough to tell NZR he was happy to bring him on board in 2024 as well. Leon at the time was having more success than Tony and we still don’t know if he would have been a better attack coach.


Pat Lams about as disconnected from the situation as any other overseas fan.

H
Hellhound 42 days ago

Yeah, everyone is outdated and disconnected except you. Only you are right and everyone else is wrong. The only one that lost touch with reality is you as usual

H
Hammer Head 45 days ago

Lam sound like he’s a bit bitter if you ask me.


But he at least is saying what many were saying when Foz was ejected like a turd from an airplane toilet and Razor was welcomed in like he was Alexandra the Great.


This was always going to happen. And the next poor soul to pick up the pieces is going to have it even worse.


So be careful what you wish for and avoid knee-jerks, snake oils and silver bullets.

H
Hellhound 42 days ago

That doesn't sound bitter. Go and watch that episode. The truth always hurt. He is saying what others are too scared to. How many times on this same forum have NZ fans complained about exactly that? Numerous times. You are right, the way they handled Foz, there couldn't be any other outcome, but then, the NZRU have proven time and time again that they are useless

J
JW 45 days ago

But he at least is saying what many were saying when Foz was ejected like a turd from an airplane toilet and Razor was welcomed in like he was Alexandra the Great.

Whats that?

Lam sound like he’s a bit bitter if you ask me.

What did you think he might have been bitter about?

T
TokoRFC 45 days ago

I think all New Zealanders are bitter about it, our attack looks shite while you’ve got a kiwi turning yours into the best in the world.


I sure am, you would be too.

I
Icefarrow 45 days ago

How quick people are to forget how badly this very process misfired back in the 1991 RWC when two of our coaches were doing their best to screw each other over.

O
Otagoman II 45 days ago

NZ rugby actually used to interview all candidates and not bother about whom they wanted to coach with. They picked 3 selectors with a head coach amongst them and they worked out the set up themselves. What Lam is talking about came later.

J
JW 45 days ago

NZ rugby actually used to interview all candidates

They still do.

S
SB 45 days ago

New Zealand Rugby missed out on that because of their behaviour. They still believe they are the best in the world, rather than making any changes to some of their behaviours

Very well said. The full interview is a good listen on YouTube.

A
AD 45 days ago

Excellent article. Great to hear from Pat Lam and what he thinks about it.

J
Jmann 45 days ago

He’ll be back you know; probably with Jamie Joseph. And, he’ll bring with him and generations worth of knowledge about the SA set up.

f
fl 45 days ago

Joseph’s best year’s are behind him.

J
JW 45 days ago

Pat Lam? I think he’s about as much us as coach of a New Zealand team as Nick Evans.

H
Hammer Head 45 days ago

Not before 2031 he won’t.

W
Wayneo 45 days ago

The impression I get is that NZ have buyer’s remorse over Robertson, a lot of it stems from Tony Brown being with the Springboks, so are angling to get rid of him and bring in Joseph. Will be difficult getting Tony back, not only because he is under contract but also more so because he is with Rassie in his setup.

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PAUL HEWITT 2 hours ago
'Ireland are consumed by chaos, but Andy Farrell's choice of 10 is becoming clear'

I think that the out-half debate simply misses some key points about what Ireland needs: really quick on his feet and mentally; able to change the plan effectively if the set one isn’t working; good at directing his three quarters; up to the pace against the best opponents; excellent tackling especially in covering. Notice that in these areas Prendergast is simply not there yet: he holds the ball low in the pass and is easily wrapped or dispossessed; he is not hard to read, telegraphing his intentions; his movement is casual and his pace off the mark is not electric; he is rarely quick getting to top speed. Crowley is better in most of these areas. Both are about even in conversion rate success but tend to miss crucial kicks. When measured against Sexton, O’Gara or Humphreys at their best - or even early on - they don’t really come close. Granted that against weaker opposition both have merits, but Byrne would appear to offer most for the French match - although I would start with Crowley. Temperament has to be the decisive factor with France coming up first and so many positions being uncertain up front. None of the provinces would fiil us with huge optimism. Incidentally, it’s easy to say that Aki is past his best, but is not Lowe a liability in defence this season? Third might be the best Ireland can hope for in the Six Nations and Scotland might just pull off a quick one against us to get that place. “What could possibly go wrong???!!!”…

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