Crestfallen Maro Itoje's verdict as England set unwanted record in Paris

Agree but the big one, the final

Boks bread and butter never lets them down under pressure and the ABs demonstrated the limitations of Super Rugby as it places little importance on pressure kicks

Both teams played outstanding rugby to get to a final. The main event though was disgusting and a new, unnamed code of the sport

WC matches are typically cagey affairs but not necessarily kicking contests. Retaining the ball doesn't mean playing like the Baa Baas. The best teams in the world can play pragmatic, smart rugby but have the x factor and game awareness to pounce on opportunities when they arise. When I think of brutal WC matches I think of Ireland Vs ABs or France vs Boks. Plenty of astute kicking but wave after wave of brutal collision and defences scrambling under incredible levels of stress.

I think that's the key with Borthwick. He certainly made sense and was appointed on merit. I don't think it was a terrible decision from top to bottom

You'll never really know with a coach until they get going with the job. I don't really like the obsession over 4 year cycles with a tournament that's played twice a decade the only measure of a team. But it's clear now that it isn't working

He seems a personable and likeable guy and his early media dealings were very impressive considering he inherited a team in free fall but the results aren't backing him and it can't be ignored. There is no way the players or fans wouldn't worry this will happen again 12-18 months down the line

I'm overjoyed that this tournament showed that every team can ball, some just do it more than others. I still don't see how it would win a team a RWC

We all know what the ultimate ambition is with the RFU and he got them a bronze finish last RWC playing even worse so you just never know

I too am surprised by how humble and friendly big Faz is. I think I projected his son's qualities onto him before I knew too much about him.

At the time the appointment of Borthwick made some sense. He spent years shadowing EJ who was once our saviour, then he took Leicester from relegation contenders to champions in one season… but it's been clear for a long time he's not up to it and for whatever reason the RFU just won't do what's needed. I was fairly open to Borthwick's appointment but when I heard he'd made Richard Wigglesworth the attack coach, I was rightly concerned. As you say, we've got the players who can do it. We've seen it on occasions when Borthwick has been forced to roll the dice. It's so abundantly clear that he's holding them back. Well he's got yet another stay of execution. I hope in desperation yet again this performance won't be so short lived in his memory and booted out of his left ear like a Wigglesworth box kick.

Agree. The thing that's surprised me most with Farrell is his personality. He looks dangerous and I assumed he would be the drill sergeant type but he seems very supportive of them. Always talks up and focuses on a players 1st cap or 50th, mentions their family etc. I just think it's core rugby values lived by the day

I remember we got skinned in the first ABs test in 2022 and he looked delighted post-match with what he saw. That had me very worried. How wrong I was. When he knows what to improve, he knows how to do it. Mark of a great coach

I thought Jones worked for England for the one cycle and very nearly got the golden prize but he was the drill sergeant they needed. The problem seems to be that the RFU want a yes man which is a terrible conflict to have at the top of an organisation

It's so obvious that they have an abundance of conditioned, skilled and capable players. They don't have the right coaching setup

Yeah there's definitely something to it… although a lot of teams have tried to dig up old league gurus from the dark depths of various mining towns without the same dramatic effect. There's something special about Farrell and Edwards and I don't know whether it's to do with league or just their no nonsense, stoic, ruthless northern attitudes. They definitely make them from sterner stuff up there. Chicken and egg scenario really. England could definitely do with a bit more of that grit whatever the cause. It's funny how England's worst world cup performance (to date) was presided over by two of the best coaches England has ever produced and what we'd give to have them both back now! Although definitely with their roles reversed.

There isn't a team or squad around that he wouldn't improve

Like Edwards too, the league background seems to be the secret sauce with these guys

The basics of the sport have always been ball in hand and defending which was still the case even before the codes split

Yeah I don't disagree.. but the RFU still need to do everything they can to get him. I'm holding out a faint glimmer of hope that he has unfinished business with England and wants to right the wrongs of 2015. After all he wasn't actually the head coach back then.

Only thing with Farrell is his past dealings with the RFU

He wouldn't be a stranger to Borthwick either and will see how he's getting treated

I don't think he would ever touch the RFU again. His career from 2016 to present has been an almighty middle finger up them

Mr itoji and a good few of Englands “Leaders” need to take a good long hard look in the mirror, and ask themselves if they really are the people to take this team forward.!!

Wow!!! That sounds very interesting after losing four matches in this competition & you believe you’re in the right direction facing Almighty Spring Bok,

I'm Irish and I must admit, that result didn't break my heart

Not one bit

Like their soccer team, you don't want them done 5-0. You'd want them done on a dodgy penalty in the 94th minute

And it never should have been a penalty! We was done dirty

Harrow doesn't teach you how to lose, lads.

Good effort England next up South Africa!

What halfwit decided that light blue would be a good colour for France. Whoever allowed that should be sacked for incompetence. The game was good and while England were unlucky at the end they also didn’t own the game so result was fair

“Maro Itoje admits that his side were disappointed that Thomas Ramos landed a last-gasp penalty to deny them a dramatic victory in Paris.”

This is groundbreaking journalism.

He led his team well. You must question where was this England for the first 4 games? It’s easy to play like that with absolutely no fear and no expectation to win. If they can bottle that performance up and bring it consistently, they can beat anyone.