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LONG READ Mick Cleary: 'If only South Africa had been on the fixture list. Then we really would know where this England stand.'

Mick Cleary: 'If only South Africa had been on the fixture list. Then we really would know where this England stand.'
3 weeks ago

As the temperatures plummet so England’s stock rises to ward off any winter blues. That’s how significant the victory over the All Blacks was. It brings cheer, it brings meaning and it brings status. Lots of it. Who needs a league table to gauge the significance of a victory? Far better to do the calculations yourself. Did we really think England had it in ‘em? Even if, admittedly, we didn’t believe the All Blacks were this bad, fallen from mythical grace? Even so, For England, it’s all top trumps. Lose, and all that fuss and hoopla would have disappeared into grey November skies, no more than another bit of typical excess from up-themselves England followers, the usual OTT media hubris. Nine wins in a row (now ten) was all very well. But England needed a proper yardstick, just as Clive Woodward’s team did all those years ago. Victory over New Zealand elevates Steve Borthwick’s men towards that peak. Base camp is now a good way behind them.

If only South Africa had been on the fixture list. Then we really would know where this England stand. As it is, England still have a hugely important task in front of them in facing Argentina on Sunday. A World Cup is about hitting heights each and every weekend in the knockout stages. Win a big quarter-final only to bomb seven days later and it’s all over – failure. Los Pumas are a great test. One English wallow (in victory) does not a summer make.

Fraser Dingwall
Fraser Dingwall cantered in under the posts as England registered a first win over New Zealand in 13 years (Photo JUSTIN TALLIS/ Getty Images)

England have put themselves in the World Cup ball game with the style of the win as much as the victory itself. The 2012 win victory was full of sweep and grandeur. This was grittier, more measured and plotted, and all the more profound because of that. Of course, it’s two years yet before the first whistle is blown in Australia. You can’t win the Webb Ellis trophy in 2025. But you can go a long way to losing your standing if you make a Horlicks of a golden opportunity. And this was very much one of those. England had to win – for inner conviction, for future credibility and for the well-being of Twickenham inner man.

VIDEO

The Springboks thrive from a real sense of each other and of country. It carries them into and through the darkest places. Never mind the Bomb Squad. With their red card tendencies, they’ve managed to make rugby a 14-man game. England are on that same pathway if not yet at that promised land of collective certainty. That long road is that bit shorter today. And Twickenham is with them, now fully on board with the Borthwick mission.

New Zealand were a benchmark even if they are far from a vintage outfit. Only two players – Ardie Savea and Will Jordan – would come close to even being considered for selection in the back-to-back World Cup-winning All Black side of a decade ago.

New Zealand were a benchmark even if they are far from a vintage outfit. Only two players – Ardie Savea and Will Jordan – would come close to even being considered for selection in the back-to-back World Cup-winning All Black side of a decade ago. That’s a factor in evaluating just how notable a result this was for England. But only one factor. Hesitant, off-kilter and punched-out as New Zealand were, they still had to be put in their place on the scoreboard. England did that. No fluke, no quibbles, damning. So, just as Martin Johnson’s team took succour from a succession of wins over the southern hemisphere Big Boys, particularly the tour games there in the summer of 2003, so this should be seen as a landmark moment for Borthwick’s men.

A year ago they were taking refuge in that tiresome guff about performance being the thing. They were playing pretty well and time and again ran the All Blacks close. It was all delusional and self-justifying, the mark of a side clutching at straws. There are no style marks awarded in rugby. It’s win or lose or gnash teeth over a draw. England now have all this in the memory bank, a long-awaited amendment to the historical ledger which now registers win number nine over the All Blacks.

George Ford
George Ford produced a tactical masterclass to overcome the All Blacks (Photo David Rogers/Getty Images)

That’s the measure of England’s progress. From chokers to clinchers. And they did it through a mix of craft and graft, the street-smart drop-goals from George Ford allied to the sustained heft of the tight scrummage that drew proper recompense for its efforts the longer the game went on. There are line-out frailties to address but that’s readily redeemable. So too the wide defence fault lines that led to those early New Zealand tries.

The POM squad may be over-marketed as a concept but it keeps on delivering on the big stage, from the front-row uptick in fortunes to the X-factor impact of a Henry Pollock. Tom Curry brings unstinting effort while Pollock the Performer struts and makes things happen. No matter his Tik-Tok tendencies, he has a capacity for major involvements. It’s no fluke. He is aware of every possibility: a gobbled up ball from a Tom Roebuck tap-down for a try against Australia and swooping hack-on kicks for England’s crowning try on Saturday. Just like South Africa, the bench is no longer an after-thought, second-best understudies.

England’s resources are well-stocked. And there is more to come. But for the first time since Borthwick took over they have a settled air and a clear sense of direction. They were beginning, too, to have selection options at their disposal.

England’s resources are well-stocked. And there is more to come. But for the first time since Borthwick took over they have a settled air and a clear sense of direction. They were beginning, too, to have selection options at their disposal. Not of Springbok depth but noteworthy nonetheless. If the mighty Sam Underhill, for example, falls then there is a legion waiting to step forward. Even the centre partnership looks as if it might be gelling with Fraser Dingwall and Ollie Lawrence working well off each other. A sense of permanence is beginning to take shape. Certainly Ollie Lawrence is as important now to England’s cause as any of that centre three-quarter stock down the generations. The Tommy Freeman to centre strategy still has legs but Lawrence has to be involved. Dingwall’s cause is advancing too, the Northampton centre playing the sort of understated but influential role that he fulfils for his club. He’s a bright spark.

There is still stuff to sort out. Of course there is. That’s why Argentina is such a fine way to end this autumn series. England with home advantage and buoyed by this emphatic success ought to win. That’s the paper talk. Los Pumas will use that to their advantage. This is the next step for England, living up to their new-found billing, just as New Zealand used to do.

Marcus Smith
Marcus Smith is a talented player but not a natural full-back and Elliot Daly and George Furbank will be back to battle with Freddie Steward for the No 15 shirt (Photo Warren Little/Getty Images)

Borthwick has plenty to ponder. The back three is in a constant state of flux, partly through injury, partly through returning players such as Elliot Daly and George Furbank and partly through choice. Poor old Freddie Steward. It looked as if it would be his sort of day: leaden skies, drizzle, kick-chase on the menu. Instead, he lasted barely the first quarter and his failed HIA opened the way for Marcus Smith. The Harlequin is not an international full-back. Yet, through his talent and instinct, be added to England’s attack. There’s to be no denying that. England need that sort of try-creating, try-taking quality at the rear. South Africa have it. New Zealand have it. Marcus Smith is not the answer. Someone has to step up for England.

Finally, to the main man, Ford. The No 10 shirt is his to lose. That’s tough on Fin Smith who has all the skills. Marcus Smith too. But Ford has served his time, uncomplaining, heart and mind fixed only on one thing – the job in hand. If ever a player deserved his place centre stage, it is him, the man of this significant English moment. In many ways, he embodies what Borthwick’s England are all about – humble, hard-working, mighty of rugby IQ and a winner to the tip of his drop-goal boots.

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Comments

48 Comments
J
JO 24 days ago

Oh Lord. Too effusive. Too much. Jeez, break out the violins. Now you’ve put us all firmly in the Argies corner.

R
RR 24 days ago

Its nice to see how england won againts new zealand i really think south africa will beat england it will be a hard game thx for world rugby

B
Baksteen 25 days ago

Surely England know where they stand. They just beat the AB’s. The prep begins for 2026 where the schedule looks interesting. One thing for sure, Rassie will be 1 step ahead

P
PaPaRumple 25 days ago

This article is giving heavy 2019 RWC final vibes 😂

P
PMcD 25 days ago

Just watched the latest “For the Love of Rugby” episode and they have a 30 min chat with George Ford, which is well worth a watch.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ko1yyiPl464


Great to hear about the influence Lee Blackett is having and how they are building out the attack strategy and strike moves.


Well worth watching if you have a spare hour to watch.

H
Hammer Head 25 days ago

Ja. We would. Second best.

P
PMcD 25 days ago

What mischief are you up to HH?

Did you enjoy those games at the weekend?


What’s going on with 2nd rows being given red cards every week in these Autumn matches?


However, the SA battle tank rumbles on, one more game for what will be an incredible achievement, 4 AWAY victories against the N/H sides. That’s super hard to achieve with all the travel, disruption etc, so if they do it it’s a mightily impressive achievement for SA and just underscores how good a team they are at the moment.

G
GM 25 days ago

Enjoy your success, England - but be grateful you’re not playing South Africa just yet. The All Blacks and Aussies were knackered even before this last weekend - the Aussies have more reason for that than the ABs. Even so, unfathomable decisions by the AB management at the beginning of the second half helped give it to England: Beauden Barrett and Roigard both injured, Cody Taylor in the bin, they get a penalty and don’t bring on another hooker, so no line out or scrum options, no kick options, they go for a tap penalty how far out? You wouldn't get that kind of get-out-of-jail-free card from the Saffers - or from any other top 6 team, which is a worry from an AB fan’s POV!

P
PMcD 25 days ago

I’ve just posted the link for the Ben Youngs Dan Cole podcast above. Well worth a listen because they have huge respect for NZ but you have two 100 cap Internationals both saying they couldn’t see the strategy or structure in NZ attack strategy and how there doesn’t seem to be an obvious plan.


It’s quite interesting to hear their perspective and understand the details and patterns they look for and you can see their genuine surprise at the lack of structure within the attack. Interesting perspective.

P
PMcD 25 days ago

By the way, big shout out to the Twickenham fans at the weekend. I loved how the team responded to the Haka and the fans immediately found their voice. That was a very active home support and made a massive difference throughout. Great to see Twickenham bouncing once again - it’s been a while.

M
Mike Gibson 25 days ago

Versus Ireland 2024?

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PMcD 25 days ago

Mick Cleary - are you completely off your rocker????


After a difficult 2 year journey we have finally seen light at the end of the tunnel.


The new 5x7’s has changed the game on defence and it looks like we have ditched the blitz defence and evolved into a hybrid rugby league style of defence akin to what Saracens & Sale use, with the defensive wall spaced across the pitch applying pressure.


We’ve gone from 130 tackles per game, with 85% tackle completion in the 6N’s, to 190 tackles vs AUS & NZ, with the 5x7’s and 91% tackle completion - that’s a monumental shift considering how porous we were last Autumn.


The Forwards look fairly settled but we still have room for improvement in Attack.


It’s interesting how Blackett is playing Dingwall & Lawrence and given the 6 N’s will bring back Freeman & Furbank, I would not be surprised to see Fin Smith slot back at 10 as we look to play that high tempo Saints attack on top of this new Sarries/Sale defence.


Give Blackett 6 months to build out his backline, attack strategy and strike moves, so we present the best version of ourselves by the time we go up against the Boks.


Let’s be honest, there wasn’t a huge amount to be exited by since the 2023 RWC but the sun is finally shining on England Rugby again, so give it some time, be patient and we will see where this journey takes us in the months ahead.


For the first time in quite a while, there is very good reason to be positive about England, so let the fans enjoy this moments and we’ll see where the journey takes us in the months ahead. 👏👏👏

R
RC 24 days ago

Can you explain the 5x7 for me please? 😊

M
Mike Gibson 25 days ago

England are playing SA away in July in first match of Nations Cup.

R
RT 25 days ago

We’re building a very good team and the AB's result was deserved. We still need a genuine international class 15 with serious pace, Arundell should be coached into that position. RFU must change eligibility rules to help SB. Then England would have every chance against Saffa's, AB's etc.

f
fl 25 days ago

lol no

Arundell doesn’t have a good enough tactical kicking game to be an international 15. I’d pick de Glanville there, but if SB doesn’t like him then Daly & Steward are the best options.

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PMcD 25 days ago

Be patient RT, I think we have the players, we just have to be patient and give them some time.


There will also be some interesting bolters knocking the door down just before the 2027 RWC. AOF, Tuipulotu, Fasogbon, Kpoku, Quirke (hopefully), Ojomoh, Arundell, Hendy, Calourie and the lucky ones that make it should further strengthen the RWC 36.


Interesting times ahead. 👍

F
Flankly 25 days ago

Nine wins in a row (now ten) was all very well.

It’s great to beat the USA, the Argentina B Team, Fiji, Wales etc. And those were probably valuable hit-outs for team development etc. But you can have a infinite sequence of wins if you only play teams ranked far below you. It’s disingenuous to present this as more than what it is: Expected performance from a team ranked in the top 5 or 6.


The measure is whether you can beat top ranked teams consistently. Wins against Australia and NZ are good to see, and good to see the manner of the wins too. Those teams are in rebuild, and both hired their current head coaches many months after England put Borthwick in place. So they are rebuilding and are earlier in the process than England is. But all three teams will improve a lot over the next 18 months.


Teams can deliver one-off wins against strong competition by exploiting narrow advantages, but consistent winning requires depth and breadth. You need the base of capable and experienced players, and you need the ability to win in multiple styles. That takes time to build, with coaching continuity, a strong culture, and relentless innovation.


It’s easy to get carried away with the one-off wins, as England did after the 2019 RWC semi-final (which was followed by a spanking in the final). What we need to see from England is not a grand showdown with SA, but a track record of consistent wins against big teams, starting with the 2026 6N.

A
AC 25 days ago

I think the England coaches agree with you because thats what they have built and continue to build on. When the foundations are strong the limits are way beyond the skies. The foundations are strong. There are real quality England qualified players playing for other countries or moving to France/Japan because they cannot break into the England team. So squad depth is there.


To say the current ABs are a shadow of former teams is insulting to the number 2 ranked team in the world who have enough players who, given half a yard, can turn a game.

You NEVER write them off.


But whatever happens next weekend, please, please, please can South Africa stay up North & England stay in camp for another week and Twickenham opens its gates for the match up we all want to see.

M
Mike Gibson 25 days ago

6N already starting to excite me (as an Irish fan). It is crucial that all the matches are competitive and to have 3-4 very strong teams to stress/challenge each other towards more improvement and development. SA and England have two best defences now. Ireland not far behind, but Saturday will tell a tale.

f
fl 25 days ago

When was the last time a team won 2 consecutive games in Argentina? England’s 10 match streak is definitely not expected performance for a top 5 team.


“It’s easy to get carried away with the one-off wins”

England have won 10 games in a row.

P
PMcD 25 days ago

You certainly don’t write like an ENG fan (me thinks it’s Flankly Imposterous) . . . . But I’ll take those “valuable hit-out” wins over the not-so lowly ranked FRANCE, SCOTLAND, AUSTRALIA & NEW ZEALAND.


As I am sure you would agree, statement wins confirming the upward progress of this team vs this time last year. Nice try 🤣🤣🤣

T
Tom 25 days ago

No thanks lol.


I'm quite happy with England quietly building momentum and not getting our pants pulled down. I want England to embrace Lee Blackett and give him time to build a system. Facing the Boks right now would throw a cat amongst the pigeons. We've got France and Ireland to come that's the perfect next step, let's try and win a Six Nations before we worry about how we stack up to the Boks. Saturday was incredible but we beat a very poor ABs team (by their haughty standards) let's not get too far ahead of ourselves.

K
KB 25 days ago

Someone with common sense.

A
AD 25 days ago

Thanks, Mick.


Let’s see how England do against Argentina on Saturday.

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