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The second in a seven-part series in the run up to this summer’s selection, taking a look at the 2013 incumbents and their chances of being selected again.
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DYLAN HARTLEY
2013 tour: A New Zealander with an English mother and face like an angry sponge, Hartley had been playing for England since 2008 without ever quite nailing down his place. In the early 2010s he became Northampton captain as the side became much more successful, but occasionally celebrated by punching someone and picking up a ban. In 2013 he was named in the Lions squad, celebrated by swearing at Wayne Barnes during a Premiership final (we’ve all done it) and got himself banned for a fourth time, costing him a place on tour.
Since then: Hartley has continued to captain Northampton and get banned as a hobby. He initially lost his starting England place too Tom Youngs shortly after the Lions tour, and after a headbutting incident in May 2015 lost his World Cup place to the headbutt-ee, Jamie George. After the World Cup Eddie Jones made him England captain, and proceeded to captain England’s first ever unbeaten year in 2016, showing the world that you don’t doubt Eddie Jones. He celebrated with a swinging arm on Sean O’Brien in a European cup game and got banned for six weeks.
Touring chances: 35%. Hartley’s success with England has come at the strange cost of showing the world just how good Jamie George is in 30 minute intervals, so it hasn’t done as much as it should for his Lions chances. Disciplinary issues aside, Hartley’s main barrier is that he’s either a starter or bust, with Jamie George being a much more dynamic option off the bench. And starter doesn’t seem to likely either. One way in might be as a set piece specialist or possibly a midweek captain. Some are saying it would be pretty crazy to leave out the England captain. The last time the England captain toured was 2001.
RICHARD HIBBARD
2013 tour: A cross between a Challenger II tank and a member of Whitesnake, Hibbard was one of several players that rose with the 2011-13 Welsh side under Gatland and formed the core of the resulting Lions side. Hibbard played the majority of tour matches as an impact sub but started the decisive third test.
Since then: Questions over his throwing led to him being replaced by Scott Baldwin in the Wales side. Nobody really sees Baldwin as the best hooker in Wales any more, but the emergence of Ken Owens and a move to Gloucester has made a return to internationals quite unlikely.
Touring chances: 15%. Why not? Hibs continues to perform admirably for Gloucester and going outside of the six nations is not exactly unheard of. One of a few names that could get that third hooker spot.
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TOM YOUNGS
2013 tour: Originally a square-built, hard-carrying centre, in 2011 25-year old Youngs was playing his first season at hooker for Nottingham in the English Championship. Two years later he was starting hooker for the Lions. He had started playing for England in 2012 while Hartley was on one of his many absences and had impressed, to the extent that he would continue to battle Hartley for the position for the next three years. In 2013 he was in the form of his life and his appearances in tour matches convinced Gatland to pick him for the first test.
Since then: Youngs played for England in the world cup but lost his place to long time rival Hartley under Eddie Jones, and Jamie George’s existence (along with Tommy Taylor) has meant he is not expected to be back in the squad any time soon. Most point to a lack of ability at the set piece, having taken up hooker so late. He has continued to play for Leicester and has made his debut season as captain.
Touring chances: 2%. Has fallen well down the ranks in England colours and is busy trying to not lead Leicester to one of the worst seasons in their pro history. It’s possible that a few excellent performances in Premiership knockouts could draw Gatland’s eye again, but George and Taylor both have a better platform to do so.
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RORY BEST
2013 tour: Irish fans probably felt maligned (I mean, more than usual) when long-term hooker Best was initially left out of the touring squad after a poor six nations. Brought in to replace Hartley, Best was revealed to just not be playing especially well at the time, and only made four appearances against the club teams.
Since then: Best held onto his starting spot under new Ireland coach Joe Schmidt and got something of a second wind, establishing himself as one of the top hookers in Europe for Ireland and Ulster. Taking over as Ireland captain after Paul O’Connell’s retirement makes him one of two international captains to have an actual chance at playing.
Touring chances: 85% I’d be shocked if Best didn’t tour at all, though some lineout problems persist and Owens and George are options that could feasibly keep him out of the test 23. This Lions squad will be short of long-term captains, not least ones who have beaten NZ, and that should make the difference for him.
Comments on RugbyPass
Jake White talks more sense than anything I've read in the last 5 years. Hope someone's listening.
9 Go to commentsThe Springboks tried going down the road of only picking home-based players and it was an unmitigated disaster in 2016 and 2017. Picking overseas-based players has been one of the main reason the Boks have done so well since 2018, not only because of the quality Rassie could call on, but because of the knowledge and experience those players brought into camp from England, France and Japan. With some of the big names playing abroad it also gave younger players in SA the chance to break through at franchise level. Would we have seen the emergence of a Ruan Nortje if RG and Lood were still at the Bulls? Not so sure. I understand why Jake would want to block players leaving since his job depends on good results but it’s an approach that would take Bok rugby back to the bad old days and no South African wants to see that.
9 Go to commentsExeter were thumped by 38 points. And they only had to hop on a train.
35 Go to commentsI am De Groot.
1 Go to commentsHad hoped you might write an article on this game, Nick. It’s a good one. Things have not gone as smoothly for ROG since beating Leinster last year at the Aviva in the CC final. LAR had the Top 14 Final won till Raymond Rhule missed a simple tackle on the excellent Ntamack, and Toulouse reaped the rewards of just staying in the fight till the death. Then the disruption of the RWC this season. LAR have not handled that well, but they were not alone, and we saw Pau heading the Top 14 table at one stage early season. I would think one of the reasons for the poor showing would have to be that the younger players coming through, and the more mature amongst the group outside the top 25/30, are not as strong as would be hoped for. I note that Romain Sazy retired at the end of last season. He had been with LAR since 2010, and was thus one of their foundation players when they were promoted to Top 14. Records show he ended up with 336 games played with LAR. That is some experience, some rock in the team. He has been replaced for the most part by Ultan Dillane. At 30, Dillane is not young, but given the chances, he may be a fair enough replacement for Sazy. But that won’be for more than a few years. I honestly know little of the pathways into the LAR setup from within France. I did read somewhere a couple of years ago that on the way up to Top 14, the club very successfully picked up players from the academies of other French teams who were not offered places by those teams. These guys were often great signings…can’t find the article right now, so can’t name any….but the Tadgh Beirne type players. So all in all, it will be interesting to see where the replacements for all the older players come from. Only Lleyd’s and Rhule from SA currently, both backs. So maybe a few SA forwards ?? By contrast, Leinster have a pretty clear line of good players coming through in the majority of positions. Props maybe a weak spot ? And they are very fleet footed and shrewd in appointing very good coaches. Or maybe it is also true that very good coaches do very well in the Leinster setup. So, Nick, I would fully concurr that “On the evidence of Saturday’s semi-final between the two clubs, the rebuild in the Bay of Biscay is going to take longer than it is on the east coast of Ireland”
11 Go to commentsWhat was the excuse for the other knockout blowouts then? Does the result not prove the Saints were just so much better? Wise call to put your eggs in one basket when you’ve got 2 comps simultaneously finishing.
35 Go to commentsReally hope Kuruvoli and his partner rock the Canes.
1 Go to commentsI wonder what impact Samson has had on their attack, as the team seems less prone to trundle it up the middle, take the tackle and then trundle it up again. I lost faith in the coach last year as the Rebelss looked like a 2nd/3rd rate South African team. I also disliked Gordon standing back, often ignored as the forward battle went on and on. Maybe its our Aussie way of not getting off our A***’s until the enemy is at the gate.
86 Go to commentsThanks for the write up. Great to see the Rebs winning, I am a little interested in how they will go against the remaining kiwi teams, I think they’ve only played Hurricanes and Highlanders but how great to see these players performing!! I also see Parling has a job beyond June 30! A good move by RA? Also how do you fix the Rebels previously scratchy defence?
86 Go to commentsbe smart - go black
13 Go to commentsNext week the Crusaders hopefully have Scott Barrett back. Will be great to have the captain back. Hopefully he will be the All Black captain as well.
12 Go to commentsExciting place to be for the young fella. I expected he was French Polynesian when I saw him included in the France 6N squad (after seeing him in NZs), and therefor be strong grounds we might loose him to rugby down here. Good, in that he is good enough to warrant such a profile, and from a journalism’s fan interaction aspect, to finally get a back ground story on the fella. Hope he has settled into NZ OK and that at least one rugby country will fit with him to help his development, which, if so, he should surely continue for a few years, and then that he can experience France to it’s fullest with a bit more maturity and less reliance on family than you would have at his current age. A good 3 or 4 years before he would be ready for International duty if he wanted to wait. Of course he already sounds good enough to accept a call up, and to cap himself, in the more immediate future (he’d have to be very very good in the case of the ABs), and he’ll get a great taste of that being with the Canes who have a bunch who are just a few years further into their career and looking likely Internationals themselves.
13 Go to commentsI remember towards the end of the original broadcasting deal for Super rugby with Newscorp that there was talk about the competition expanding to improve negotiations for more money - more content, more cash. Professional rugby was still in its infancy then and I held an opposing view that if Super rugby was a truly valuable competition then it should attract more broadcasters to bid for the rights, thereby increasing the value without needing to add more teams and games. Unfortunately since the game turned professional, the tension between club, talent and country has only grown further. I would argue we’re already at a point in time where the present is the future. The only international competitions that matter are 6N, RC and RWC. The inter-hemisphere tours are only developmental for those competitions. The games that increasingly matter more to fans, sponsors and broadcasters are between the clubs. Particularly for European fans, there are multiple competitions to follow your teams fortunes every week. SA is not Europe but competes in a single continental competition, so the travel component will always be an impediment. It was worse in the bloated days of Super rugby when teams traversed between four continents - Africa, America, Asia and Australia. The percentage of players who represent their country is less than 5% of the professional player base, so the sense of sacrifice isn’t as strong a motivation for the rest who are more focused on playing professional rugby and earning as much from their body as they can. Rugby like cricket created the conundrum it’s constantly fighting a losing battle with.
9 Go to commentsOh wow… “But as La Rochelle proved in winning in Cape Town this season, a cross-continental away assignment need not spell the end of days.” La Rochelle actually proved quite the opposite. After traveling to Cape town and back they (back-to-back and current champs) got mercilessly thumped the next week. If travel is not the reason, why else would a full-strength powerhouse like La Rochelle get dumped on their @r$e$ one week later?
35 Go to commentsYou know he can land a winning conversion after the full time siren is up. (Even if it takes two attempts.)
5 Go to commentsA very insightful article from Jake. I would love to know how South African’s feel about their move to Europe. Do you prefer playing in Europe or want to go back to Super Rugby?
9 Go to commentspure fire
1 Go to commentsA very well thought out summary of all the relevant complications…agree with your ”refer the Cricket Test versus 20/20 comparison”. More also definitely doesn't necessarily mean better!
9 Go to commentsMust be something when you are only 19 y.o and both NZ and France want you. Btw he wasn’t the only new caledonian in french U20 as Robin Couly also lived in Noumea until 17. Hope he’s successful wherever he chooses to play.
13 Go to comments“Several key players in the Stade Rochelais squad are in their thirties” South Africans are going to hate the implications of that comment!
11 Go to comments