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Ex-Wallaby laughs off claims Bath are amongst the best in the world
By Jon Newcombe
Former Wallaby Morgan Turinui has rubbished Bath’s credentials as future World Club champions if such a competition ever gets the go-ahead.
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The 20-times capped centre joined Aussie commentator Sean Maloney and former Wallaby team-mate, Matt Burke, to discuss the lack of an Australian presence in the Super Rugby Pacific final on Stan Sports’ Between the Two Posts show, while also casting an eye overseas to check in on the Gallagher Premiership final between Bath and Michael Cheika’s Leicester.
Bath won 23-21 in the searing heat at the Allianz Stadium in Twickenham, after surviving a late fightback from the Tigers. Meanwhile, the Crusaders and Chiefs will fight it out for the Super Rugby title after seeing off the Blues and the Brumbies, respectively.
Burke, who played in England for Newcastle, was impressed by not only the weather but the spectacle as a whole, saying: “It was a good game of footy, back and forth, the hits were great. My daughter asked me who would win, the best of the North versus the best of the South. It would be a great contest.”
Turinui, however, hit back, giving the idea that Bath could challenge the Super Rugby Pacific 2025 finalists, as the standout club team in world rugby, very short shrift.
“Please, Chiefs, Crusaders would absolutely tower (destroy) Bath. Toulouse and Leinster, and the Northamptons, that’s a different story.”
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Burke added: “Wouldn’t it be great to get that going?”
As things stand, a Rugby World Club Cup is due to be launched in 2028, after agreement was reached last month between the relevant leagues and unions.
The plan is to stage the competition every four years with 16 teams involved. Eight will qualify through the Investec Champions Cup and the other half from Super Rugby and Japan.
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I ultimately don’t care who the best club team in the world is, so yeah, lets agree to disagree on that.
I would appreciate clarity on a couple of things though:
Where did I contradict myself?
Saying “Trophies matter. They matter a lot. But so does winning games. So does making finals.” is entirely compatible with ranking a team as the best - over an extended period - when they have won more games and made more finals than other comparable teams. It would be contradictory for me to say “Trophies matter. They matter a lot. But so does winning games. So does making finals.” and then completely ignore Leinster record of winning games and making finals.
“You can get frustrated and say I am not reading what you write, but when you quote me, then your first line is to say thats true (what I wrote), but by the end of the paragraph have stated something different, thats where you contradict yourself.”
What you said (that I think trophies matter) is true, in that I said “Trophies matter. They matter a lot. But so does winning games. So does making finals.”. Do you understand that Leinster won more games and made more finals than any other (URC-based) team did under the period under consideration?
“Pointless comparison on Blackburn and Tottenham to this discussion as no-one includes them on a list of the best club. I would say that Blackburns title season was better than anything Tottenham have done in the Premier League. My reference to the league was that the team who finished second over two seasons are not better than the two other teams who did win the league each time. One of the best - of course, but not the best, which is relevant to my point here about Leinster, not comparing teams who won 30 years ago against a team that never won.”
I really don’t understand why you would think that this is irrelevant. You seem to be saying that winning trophies is the only thing that matters when assessing who is the best, but doesn’t matter at all when assessing who is 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, etc.
“What I referred to in my Leinster wouldn’t say the were the best is your post earlier where you said Leinster were the best overall. You said that in two separate posts. Seasons dont work like that, they are individual. Unless the same team keeps winning then you can say they were the best over a period of time and group them, but thats not the case here.”
Well then we’ve just been talking at cross purposes. In that my position (that Leinster were the best team overall in 2022-2024) was pretty clear, and you just decided to respond to a different point (whether Leinster were the best team individually in particular years) essentially making the entire discussion completely pointless. I guess if you think that trophies are the only thing that matters then it makes sense to see the season as an individual event that culminates in a trophy (or not), whereas because I believe that trophies matter a lot, but that so does winning matches and making finals, it makes it easier for me to consider quality over an extended period.
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Bath won their titles this season since before most of their current team were born!!, so let's not get too carried away shall we.
As for Saints, well they beat Ireland away!!, and away on the road in SA.
And currently SA, Ireland and France are 1,2,3 in the world rankings, so the northern hemisphere is kind of doing OK!!
Your rankings are way out Mark.
SA, NZ and Paddies are the top 3 in that order.
I mean I don't disagree that Blues, Chiefs etc would probably beat Bath. Bit weird though to then say that Northampton would be competitive when Bath have been far better than them all season. I do think Bath would be competitive, they're a strong side who would challenge the SR champs in ways their not used to. Leinster, Toulouse, Bordeaux are all capable of being crowned the top club side in the world.
The competition is a bad idea and I suspect some teams won’t take it seriously, but assuming every team does then Bath will do reasonably well. Its pure ignorance to suggest that Northampton stand a much better shot.
I’d suggest an approximate ranking of the best club sides at present would be something like:
1. Leinster
2. Toulouse
3. Bordeaux
4. Chiefs
5. Blues
6. Brumbies
7. Bath
8. Crusaders
9. Toulon
10. Bulls
it’s a great idea and every team that thinks it has a chance of winning it will take it seriously
Crusaders at 8th? Ridiculous claim considering they’ve beat your 5th ranked team three times this season, and 6th ranked team once. That’s a 100% wr against them both.
I think thats doing a fully fit Northampton a disservice. I wouldn’t be surprised to see them beat Leinster 7 or 8 times out of 10 right now. Leinster can’t cope with the pace and attack Saints have, and Saints were missing several players and played a man down for a quarter of the match. Leinster were only missing Ryan and had a week off before the semi-final.
To not have them in the top 10 of clubs in the world is crazy.
As a Kiwi I think the Blues are a bit high here but a pretty interesting list!
I reckon the top 4 are all neck and neck and then there’s a bit of a drop?
I think Bordeaux are No 1, Leinster 2nd & Toulouse 3rd and there is a bit of a gap with the teams below, so doesn’t really matter of their ranking as it will be the top 3 that dominate.
Toulouse 2nd ONLY IF Dupont plays. If not - way lower.