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The good, the bad, the ugly with the All Blacks' forwards in 2025

Codie Taylor of New Zealand celebrates after scoring their second try during the Quilter Nations Series 2025 rugby international match between England and New Zealand at Allianz Twickenham Stadium on November 15, 2025 in London, England. (Photo by David Rogers/Getty Images)

There are some suggestions the All Blacks forward pack went backwards in 2025, unable to match what the improvements they made in 2024.

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There are some truths to the suggestion, but there was more experimentation in 2025, which meant the pack was not reaching their optimal level. The ‘dip’ in output can be put down to a combination of injuries, player availability, depth-building and experimentation.

The year that was 2024 saw Wallace Sititi take over the blindside flanker role for the All Blacks and become a game-breaking force down the stretch, dominating international rugby with line-breaking runs that offered the All Blacks an extra threat in attack.

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Erasmus looks back on the positives of the tour

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Erasmus looks back on the positives of the tour

With Sititi returning from injury during the international season, we didn’t see the same force with ball-in-hand. Sititi was limited to one line break during the 2025 Rugby Championship.

This was a natural, unavoidable reality of Sititi’s injury. The 23-year-old will likely return to his best form in time, and get back to the form that saw him claim the Breakthrough Player of the Year award.

But without Sititi hitting top gear, the All Blacks pack failed to field the same sort of game-breaker out in the wider channels to turbocharge their attacking ability. They tried Simon Parker and Ardie Savea out in the tramlines in attack, but the 2024 deeds of Sititi were difficult to replicate.

2024 was also the year that Tupou Vaa’i became one of the world’s best locks. His tour of South Africa last year was when Vaa’i climbed into that conversation with an all-round game at the lineout, the ruck and defence. Breakdown turnovers, lineout steals and the maturity to call the lineout plays made Vaa’i the most valuable forward.

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In 2025, Vaai’s impact in the second row was diminished with the early season experiment at blindside flanker. We know Vaa’i is a capable No.6, but lock is where the All Blacks get the best of him. He doesn’t bring the explosive ability at No.6 that Sititi does, they are just two different player types.

The Vaa’i blindside move allowed the All Blacks to blood Fabian Holland, who became this year’s Breakthrough Player of the Year on the back of big minutes, high tackle counts, and a reliable target at the lineout. The Taylor-Holland connection was free money for most the season, as opposition decided it wasn’t worth competing against the tall Dutchman.

While Holland was a surprise find, he isn’t the finished product. Tackle completion of 81 per cent during the Rugby Championship isn’t at the world class standard. There were some defensive read lapses, and he doesn’t have the same ability at the breakdown as Vaa’i.

When the All Blacks used Holland in the second row, with Vaa’i in the back row, they had lineout options but lost turnover generation in the second row and explosive ball-carrying in the back row.

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The veteran pair of Patrick Tuipulotu and Scott Barrett were off injured throughout 2025, limiting the depth in the second row. When both are healthy, the All Blacks pack is stronger. Particularly when Tuipulotu is available to play on the bench and bring hard-hitting tackles and lineout stability in the final quarter.

The worst half of rugby in 2025 was the second 40 minutes against the Springboks in Wellington, with a very inexperinced core of forward reserves. Brodie McAlister, Tamaiti Williams, Fletcher Newell, Fabian Holland and Du’Plessis Kirifi. Veteran experience was missing from that group, and it was felt when the lineout completely capitulated with McAlister unable to find any of his marks.

A consistent theme under Robertson is that the All Blacks play their best rugby when the bench is stacked with experience.

2025 was the first full international season that Ardie Savea played at openside, having taken the No.7 role off retiring Sam Cane.

Savea at No.7 for the All Blacks is very different to the Savea at No.7 for Moana Pasifika. He put up two world class campaings, but in different style.

With his club side there is the freedom to ad-lib and play a lot more off the cuff. Chip kicks, grubber kicks, heads up rugby. That’s where we saw Savea do some outrageous things on attack during Super Rugby Pacific.

His role as the 7 for the All Blacks is more traditional with a high defensive workload, secure possession at the breakdown, and win back possession. His eight turnovers during the Rugby Championship a testament to his world-class poaching instincts.

It wasn’t just turnovers, it was where and when those turnovers happened. Many times he took the ball off the opposition in his own 22, snuffing out points. His last minute breakdown penalty against the Springboks roughly 10 metres out from his own try line at Eden Park helped sealed a historic win.

Savea ended up as the All Blacks most consistent and best forward in 2025, playing a traditional openside role.

The emergence of Hurricanes No.8 Peter Lakai late in the year was another bonus. He’s long been a carrying machine for the Canes in Super Rugby. He stood up in Paris against France last year, but wasn’t given the chance to play until late in 2025. It is clear that Lakai adds power and dynamism to the All Blacks pack.

The area of most concern in 2025 was the front row and their set-piece. When the All Blacks had to rely on their third-string hooker, the lineout fell apart.

There was a huge gap between Taylor and Taukei’aho, and the next best hooker. The season-long absence of Asafo Aumua hurt massively. Last year’s debutant, George Bell, wasn’t selected, with Chiefs hooker McAlister filling that role.

The All Blacks need to find that third hooker who can make the pressure throws. A healthy Aumua will be welcomed back with open arms. But should any of the top three be unavailable, that could see Highlanders pair Henry Bell and Jack Taylor considered if Super Rugby form warrants.

Tyrel Lomax is New Zealand’s best tighthead and injuries beset the Hurricanes prop this year. As a result the set-piece suffered. He returned for the second Springboks Test but perhaps was underdone and then suffered injury against the Wallabies at Eden Park. Fletcher Newell and Pasilio Tosi tag-teamed in Lomax’s absence with varied results.

The most total scrum performance was against the Wallabies in Perth where the set-piece was used to gain ascendency in a match that the All Blacks struggled to get a grip on early. It was scrum penalties that helped the All Blacks get out of multiple holes, and the bench continued that dominance when they came on.

The old adage that you are only as strong as your weakest link proved to be true for the All Blacks pack this year. At full strength, they can be a world-leading force and match it with the best, but that wasn’t seen in 2025.

That might be an idealistic dream given injuries will always play a part, which means the All Blacks coaches need to find better second and third options in some positions in 2026.


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Comments

69 Comments
c
cw 6 days ago

The Good - Two sets of forwards that when on form could match anyone. (just need to find the form…)


The Bad - lack of on field leadership especially when the going gets tough both in terms of decision making and inspiration.


The Ugly - A turnstile defence against (not only but especially) high intensity opposition - 6 tries Wellington, 4 tries London, and 4 tries Cardiff!

P
PMcD 7 days ago

I’ve not understood what has changed in the AB front row this year.


In 2024, they played De Groot, Taylor & Lomax, with the reserve bench more than holding their own with Williams & Newell looking destructive.


Roll on 2025 and those same combination of players have looked a shadow of their former selves. Newell has proven he is not an International starter THP and they need to get their starters back next season and work out what is happening in the scrum.


This is the starting piece to the jigsaw but then it’s the bench, followed by attack.

S
SC 7 days ago

Lomax was injured and never match fit when returned. He was quite frankly very poor scrummaging.


Williams was injured and returned before he was match fit for RC. When he should have been match fit by November, he still looked unfit.


DeGroot and Newell had very good seasons but both were over-worked and over-played due to the injuries to Williams and Lomax. As a result, their performances dipped in November due to fatigue.


George Bower and Pasilio Tosi were under-used. Tosi is really hurt by being behind Lomax at Hurricanes and not playing 60 minutes per match.

c
ck 7 days ago

8 Flanders 7 lakai 6 Parker

21 ardie 20 sititi

J
JW 7 days ago

And I think players like Stoddart are building towards a dominant season too. Should the best Super season yet.

C
CG 8 days ago

There are good guys not yet tried. Flandillilanders is very Readlike.

The mighty Frizz might come back.

Casey is a hungry lad.

Mathers is another

Howden is big and angry

Bender always writes a fun article

..and he annoys the saffers so that is two good things

J
JW 7 days ago

Bit small for Read comparisons?


Ben loves nerding out on NZ rugby for sure.

S
SC 8 days ago

TK Howden (6) and Devan Flanders (8) played outstanding for the AB XVs. Flanders was very good in 2024 playing on the AB XVs too.


Ollie Mathis (7) is one for 2028 as he will need to get stronger and bigger to play in the back row. He will be only 23 in 2028.

S
SC 8 days ago

All Black Matchday 23 (2026):

Taylor, Taukeo’aho, DeGroot, Williams, Lomax, Newell, S. Barrett, Holland, Vaa’i, Parker, Savea, Sititi, Lakai, Flanders

Roigard, Preston, Mo’unga, McKenzie, Tupaea, Fainga’anuka, Clarke, Jordan, J.Barrett


All Black Squad (36):

Bell, Norris, Tosi, Tuipolutu, Lord, Papalii

Hotham, Reihana, Tavatavanawai, Proctor, Carter, Tangitua, Love


Goodbye:

Jacobson, Lio-Willie, Finau, Christie, B. Barrett, ALB, Ioane, Reese, Narawa

J
JW 7 days ago

Like the addition of Preston. Not sure why his left (opposite) boot wasn’t working well on the eoyt, no doubt it’s a skill his professional coaches have made him abandon after he broke on the scene masterminding Wellingtons trophy run with his kicking.


He’s a Preston, so lets hope he’s smart enough to look after his own game because I thought he was near on as accurate and consistent as Gordon or Mitchell his first couple of months this year before Hotham returned (and he seemed to wear out himself), but arguably even better the way he could do it with both feet.

S
SC 8 days ago

Shockingly, the weak link in the All Blacks pack is the back row.


Savea, Sititi, and Lakai are clearly very good test players, when healthy. The problem is that they are all short and light and none provide a legitimate third lineout option. Any two of them in the starting lineup works with the third on the bench.


Until the All Blacks find a legitimately big man to play blindside who is both nasty and athletic, the back row will remain unbalanced and flawed.


Kirifi, Papalii, Jacobson, and Blackadder are all excellent Super Rugby players but all have proven to be average test players and in the 28-30 age range are not going to get better. Plus, Jacobson and Blackadder are extremely injury prone, as is Cullen Grace who is an excellent loosie at SRP but too often injured.


Too early to make a decision in regards to Parker- he was hit and miss.


Finau and Lio-Willie don’t look like they have the goods at test level.


All Blacks really need a couple of young loose forwards to have breakout seasons. The question is who?

B
Bazzallina 7 days ago

I have far from given up on Finau to often unfairly maligned imo truly powerful see him bump Scooter backwards 5 meters on the carry in Super final loves to hit and big boi Cory Kellow is another interesting one looks like a Blackadder type plays all 3 but a real baller when comes to skill

B
Bazzallina 7 days ago

Semisi Tupou Ta'eiloa Is a crash bash beast and he is only what 22? His stats match up

very well an he aint tall 6”1 looks bigger than the 113 kg listed and his power runs to get gainline unmatched and is far faster than most expectI believe in NZ was huge for Moana needs to improve tackle accuracy but dominat tackles smashes dudes as does another loosie who is bit undersized Lasaqa at the Highlanders who is electric ball in hand and makes plenty dominant tackles only 23 just?

J
JW 7 days ago

Sititi was a very good lineout option last year. I would prefer him as a fourth to make the lineout extra powerful though. Trouble is the coachs wouldn’t be capable of utilizing four.


They have Finau for the backrow who ticks all those boxes. Even better would be to move Barrett, there. They haven’t to be careful of choosing locks for that role though, as the likes of Vaai provide a very difference purpose. For instance I would prefer Patrick Tuipulotu at 6 over Vaai for the aspects I’ve after.


I don’t think there is any room for young loose forwards to breakthrough in Super unfortunately, the best bet there would be who the Blues use at 6 and the Highlanders at 7. Much more room for a 23/24, even 25 yo to step up and have a blinder Super season and show potential as an All Black.

P
PMcD 8 days ago

I would be interested to hear from the AB fans what they thought the lowest point during 2025?


Was it;


a) The loss to Argentina (no bad thing)

b) The record defeat to the SB’s (Wellington)

c) The loss to ENG at Twickenham?


Genuinely interested to understand your views and what makes certain results worse than others?

J
JW 7 days ago

Performance wise Argentina, we just get so clearly beaten by them, I don’t know what it is. Just no excuses, terrible attack, 1 or zero line breaks or something.


Lowest point though, when they started walking around the field just when South Africa had done the opposite and upped their game in Wellington. For the other part of that game they were competing well against a side who has gone on to dominate others for 80 minutes (so I can’t say the game itself). But the dropoff after they got too far behind in Wellington should have ended careers (if it wasn’t the coaches fault).

F
Flatcoat 7 days ago

The 2nd Bok test..we gave up..biggest loss ever..

S
SC 8 days ago

Argentina are an excellent rugby team who can beat anyone, including the Springboks, on their day. I legit think they are a top 4 nation ahead of Ireland and France.


The Springboks got humiliated at Ellis Park vs a mediocre Wallabies team. This shows that even the best team in the world can lose momentum and the score line get away from them. So a beat up All Black team ran out of gas and should have been rotated. A lesson.


The England test pisses me off. Once I saw England’s bench selections of 3 loosies on a 6-2 bench and Razor go with a 5-3 bench with only 1 loosie AND split up the Tupaea- Fainga’anuka midfield which beat Ireland and Scotland, I expected to lose the test in the second half.

H
Hammer Head 8 days ago

So basically the article can be summed up as the ABs forwards peaked in 2024.


Great.

D
Dave Didley 8 days ago

Bro, why didn't you mention the 57-0? From 2017?

P
PMcD 8 days ago

It’s clear the AB scrum has gone backwards this year, which is rather strange because it’s mostly the same players, but there is an argument to say AB depth at both lock & back row has improved and it’s actually Razor limitations with selection is the greatest limitation during 2025, with Razor struggling with combinations and bench strategy starting to weight on results.


Dare I say it, Scooters injury was almost helpful this Autumn. If you had all 4 injury free, Vaa’i & Holland are probably the best starters and Tuipulotu is probably best off the bench, which leaves Scooter in a precarious place.


I still think the back row is forming and I liked what Parker, Savea & Lakai bring to the start of games but having seen the Q3/Q4 fall off, changing to the 6|2 bench feels necessary to bring Sititi/Kirifi off the bench with Tuipulotu to add the extra energy that has been missing.


Then it comes to the backline and it’s clear Razor has an issue with LF playing at 13. They probably played their best attacking rugby with him rampaging through contact, only to be moved out to the wing where he hardly sees the ball.


If anything, the weakness appears to be the “All Blacks Selection process” and an inability to innovate or expand ideas from what was known in the past. The limitation of 5|3 in the modern game is becoming clear and the decision not to play 6|2 probably cost them the game against ENG.


In the current game of non-stop forwards defence and the ability to create gain line in the final 20 mins of games, refusing to consider playing 6|2 looks like Razor’s biggest weakness and limitation and the lack of impact vs ENG’s bench just confirms that sort of thinking is dated and ineffective, which is starting to sum up Razor’s overall reign in charge.

J
JW 7 days ago

Center is not a carry position in NZ rugby, you get more ball as an 11. If you want him to carry more, you put him at 12 like they did against Wales.

S
SC 8 days ago

As a lock, Vaa’i is a very good jumper, very good at the breakdown over the ball, and???


He is not a strong scrummager, does little in maul defence, not much of a ball carrier, and not particularly physical cleaning rucks.


Scott Barrett may not be the best choice of captain but he clearly does everyone of those roles far better than Vaa’i or any other lock (Tuipolutu can do these things too but only off the bench, Paddy has never been able to over 80 minutes at test level).


Vaa’i was one of the best two locks in 2024 before the emergence of Holland and Lord, who are much taller. Now he is a 6 or bench lock.

J
JW 8 days ago

The ‘dip’ in output can be put down to a combination of injuries, player availability, depth-building and experimentation.

Those are all things that help, there was a nice rotation to all parts last year that gave them the nod at, f/r, 2ndr and backrow. Dalton/Cane/Lakai>Savea/Savea/Savea, Taylor/Sami/Aumua>Taylor/Sami, Finau/Blackadder/Sititi>Vaai/Parker. Possibly only 8 and lock had a better rotation this year, and you’d probably have to give the nod to them too. You use it as an excuse, I use to as a factor to why they were better because of it.

This was a natural, unavoidable reality of Sititi’s injury.

I think it had more to do with what they tried to change him into in 2025.

When the All Blacks used Holland in the second row, with Vaa’i in the back row, they had lineout options but lost turnover generation in the second row and explosive ball-carrying in the back row.

No they didn’t. It doesn’t matter where Vaai is making turnovers, and Vaai didn’t replace the carrying 6, he replaced the non carrying 7 (and the other loosies shifted over one).


I agree Patty especially missed from last years efforts, he put in some commanding roles (his replacements this year did well too though).


Ardie was the same 7 all year, tests are just tighter. Unsure of his role/benefit, they got shuffled around but you have to think they lost out overall to not having Cane’s defensive workrate available.


I probably have to say I agree last years pack were better, but I actually give credit to the forced rotation for that.

S
SC 8 days ago

This is an outstanding post with a lot of excellent insight.


Two legit questions:


1. Are you suggesting that Savea is much more effective at test rugby playing 8 rather than 7?


2. Are you suggesting Sititi is better at 6 than 8 at test rugby?

P
PMcD 8 days ago

Is it that the pack has got worse JW, or is it simply that other teams have moved forward and left Razor’s AB’s behind with the new players they have added and the 6|2 forward split maintaining an overall 80 mins performance.


If we are honest, the AB’s forwards are generally competitive for 45 mins and it’s when the opposition bench comes on and makes a difference that you notice the difference between the teams. That for me says the bench strategy is simply wrong.

M
MO 8 days ago

Totally agree with article the ABs scum has gone backwards in 2025 - while our lineouts have gone well (except Boks in Wellington - where inexperience got the better of McAlister, Holland, and Lord).


More worrying is the tight set piece - the Boks destroyed our pack on occasions at Eden Park (we’ll never forget being shunted backwards) and Wellington - but we struggled against England, Ireland, and in truth Wallabies and 2nd String French were not worried by us.


Let’s not forget how Pumas backrow outplayed us too - so I am worried that our backrow just has no dog. Parker is a big boy, and hits hard when he doesnt miss - but I wish the Chiefs would play Ah’Kuoi at 6 - he’s big, mongrel, hits hard, great hands, can jump in line outs etc.


If NZRU insists on not allowing non-NZ based players to play for the AB - they need to come up with some more innovation. For example an NFL “Draft” so we make sure all 5 SR franchises are equally matched. Also to tell SR Team managers where to play certain players to prepare them for the AB e.g., Love at 10 - also do more box kicking.


But the obvious thing would be to bring Japanese clubs into SR. This would allow our top players to play in Japan, but still play games in NZ, it saves NZRU millions $$$ and allows us to grow our NZ based players, but our teams would get to play against South Africans.

J
JW 7 days ago

Also what came to mind was that even if the scrum was solid and probably better than all but SA I can’t remember ONE where the shunted the opposition back dominantly.

J
JW 8 days ago

The maul also seemed to have gotten worse (or the opposition better) as the year went on.


Luckily NZR are doing both of those things you suggest. Might be more long term solution but lets work on them. They other problem is Super team that are far too individualistic in how they play, like the Blues, which hinders their players opportunities higher up, for example Dalton not being used as a carry expert.

S
SC 8 days ago

Playing Japanese clubs in a Champions Cup format running separately and simultaneously to Super Rugby Pacific could work.


But Japan will never join Super Rugby Pacific as their Top League is ran by corporations and is successful.

S
SB 8 days ago

I personally believe that the loose forward trio lacks balance. In my opinion if you’re going to play Savea, it’s best to do so next to two absolute tackling monsters. This will allow him to do more of his ball in hand work that he is so good at. Lakai and Sititi are quality players but for me 2/3 of them should come off the bench to make an impact as opposing teams tire.

K
Karlos G 7 days ago

Hmm Don't think that opposing teams tire theory works anymore especially with the benches of SA and England stacked with talent.Only team l saw tiring in the 2nd half in important games was the ABs we seriously need to consider the 6:2 split in certain games and strategically bring most on in one go!

J
JW 8 days ago

For you balanced is an unbalanced mix that favours heavy tacklers. Got it.


It would be nice if Lakai could show this ability, atm I’m not sure he’s too much more useful than Lio-Willie.

S
SC 8 days ago

On a 6-2 bench, having Lakai and Sititi coming on with 30 minutes would provide extraordinary impact.


The issue is there really are not many truly exceptionally athletic loosies in NZ to start with Savea without those two.


Perhaps 6 Parker/ Vaa’i, 7 Papalii/ Jacobson, 8 Savea with Sititi and Lakai on bench.

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