'It has that wonderful air of unpredictability' - Dallaglio on RWC, England's revival and fighting for kids excluded from mainstream education
It’s 16 years since Lawrence Dallaglio’s England ruled the world, the talisman No8 fitting in perfectly as a piston driving his country on to glory behind their engine room skipper Martin Johnson.
His retirement from playing hasn’t been about pipe and slippers by the fireside, thinking of the good old days and all the battles that were won and celebrated. Far from it. “It’s about keeping yourself active really and lucky enough I have carried on exercising,” explained Dallaglio to RugbyPass.
“I’m on the bike a lot and I’m in the gym. I dread to think what would happen if I stopped doing that. I’m okay for now and I’m still young pup, I’m only 47.”
Currently, he has the adrenaline of a teenager. Rugby World Cup is on the horizon and the Land Rover ambassador, who is doubling up as an ITV pundit for the finals where he will be on the ground in Japan from the quarter-finals onwards, can’t wait for the tournament to get started.
World Cup hype has a habit of being manufactured, lame cliches repetetatively trotted out for the sake of something being said to offset the predicability of who will win. But there is very different dynamic surrounding these pioneering first finals in the Far East.
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No one is mortgaging their house on the outcome, a situation that is giving the 2003 winner goosebumps thinking about the many different ways the results might fall. “I’m as excited as I have been for a long time,” he enthused. “It’s getting the juices flowing like no other tournament. It’s very exciting indeed.”
Give Dallaglio an inch in conversation and he forcefully takes a mile to exhaustively explain how he feels it is all shaping up. “I’m not tired about talking about rugby. The beauty about this tournament, this particular World Cup, is that depending on which way you are coming at it, you can build a case in quite a few different directions and we haven’t had that for quite a while, that is for sure.
“There has been a slight air of predictability about international rugby, particularly with the strength of New Zealand in the southern hemisphere, but you can’t quite say the same this time around. It’s exciting, it’s wide open. There is a little unpredictability about it and it could just be the opportunity for someone to write their name in history,” he said, momentarily pausing before taking a depth breath and getting further into the meat and drink of his synopsis.
‘You don’t fully realise how much of a bubble professional sport is until that bubble actually bursts’
– @BryanHabana tells @heagneyl about his life after rugby retirement, the rejuvenation of the @Springboks and his excitement for the @rugbyworldcup ??https://t.co/gmoCmXcNve— RugbyPass (@RugbyPass) August 25, 2019
“We have to pay homage to the double world champions [New Zealand] who have coaches who have won a World Cup and players who have been to a World Cup and won and have probably got more experience of playing in Japan than any other team.
“Before we get too ahead of ourselves, let’s make it very clear that they are the No1 side and the team to beat when they pick their players in their right positions, which I’m sure they will do come their opening game and they go out there with their best available team. They are going to take some beating.
“They have a win ratio that is still above 90 per cent. That suggests that if you have only got to win seven games they are going go be the team to beat. But the good news is that they have been a little bit more vulnerable than in the past and there is a much stronger case that you can build for some of the other sides on their day.
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SBW is one of four current All Blacks from the 2011 team that have never tasted defeat at a World Cup. Will that experience be invaluable in Japan? ??#allblacks #rwc #rwcsquad #nzrugby #sbw #bluesrugby #counties #rugby #rugbyworldcup #rwcjapan
“If you’re a guy who likes a flutter and you took South Africa last year at 12/1 you would be pretty happy with that bet now because they look like a team that has got momentum behind them with Rassie Erasmus coaching. They have certainly got the organisational skills and the belief to go and win the tournament.
“Who knows? By playing New Zealand in the first game they might blow the tournament wide open if they were able to win. England are in a good place at the right time. They are fit, they look strong and they are playing some pretty good rugby. Equally you would say the same about the likes of Wales.
“Australia, we can sit here and say are they good enough to win a World Cup but can they be consistently good enough go win seven games on the trot? There are question marks in the last couple of years as to whether they can do that, but are they good enough to beat any of the sides taking part in a one-off game? The Rugby Championship would suggest they are.
‘I remember as a kid having vague recollections of police checks and border controls, so the thought of going back there feels as though it's such a step back in time’
– @BrianODriscoll talks to @heagneyl about Brexit, @IrishRugby and @rugbyworldcuphttps://t.co/jHOw9x5HfE— RugbyPass (@RugbyPass) September 1, 2019
“They are going to be a very dangerous side, particularly if they make it through to the knockout stages because they have shown in recent weeks with a full squad they are capable of beating anyone. So yeah, the tournament is set fare and that is why it makes it exciting to talk about because there is lots of different directions you can push it really.”
A special word, though, for his own country England. Can they really emulate what Dallaglio and co memorably achieved in 2003 in Australia, especially after their last participation in the finals ended in pool stage ignominy in 2015?
“They have come a long way in four years is what I would say. Clearly, that was the low point of English World Cup history, the first team to not qualify out of the pool stages of a host World Cup. Eddie Jones took over and they have someone who has been to World Cup finals and won and lost.
“He has immense experience. He talked when he took England over about not having any world-class players but their journey and development in the last four years has seen that shift dramatically. They do have a number of players who are right up there among the best in the world in their position now and if they keep them fit and fresh then they have got as good a chance as any.
“They have had a few defeats which raised question marks where they switched off for spells in games, 10, 15, 20 minutes which has cost them. But if they have learned some of the lessons from those games in Cardiff last season, the second half against New Zealand at Twickenham, they have got what it takes for sure.
“I like the look of the squad that he has picked. He has got a core of players who have won trophies in domestic, European and international rugby over the last two or three years and that creates that real belief that they go to Japan and do something special.”
Speaking generally, Dallaglio hopes that RWC 2019 can accelerate rugby’s global appeal, a wish dependent on the minnows shining and the sport being easy to understand and consume for the non-rugby fans tuning in. “This is the ninth World Cup but the first time it is going to be in Asia, which is groundbreaking and historic as a sport.
“Yes, we have got some of the usual favourites that we are discussing but there are some pretty special tier two nations and it will feel it is more of a global tournament than it has been in along time.
“Rugby has really grown in the United States, there has been huge coverage the last few years. The appreciation of rugby is getting bigger and bigger and there is an opportunity as the playing schedule is a little bit fairer this time, not just slanted towards the tier one nations.
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An impossible task but hoping we get at least 5 out of 15 correct… #RugbyWorldCup #Japan2019
“There is an opportunity. The fact that we can’t call the winner gives it that wonderful air of unpredictability as we saw in the last tournament when they hosts didn’t make it out of their pool and when Japan beat South Africa. Anything is possible.
“It is a sport that is trying to de-complicate itself as much as possible to get the right outcomes and speed things up a little bit. We are in a much better place than some other sports in terms of the way that is refereed and the consistency we have across the board.
“What we would love to see is some running rugby played and some exciting games but we have to also appreciate that in rugby it doesn’t always mean tries being scored to make it exciting. It can be a great game where a team only scores one or two tries each. It is a game that is as much about the quality of defence as it is about the quality of the attack.”
It’s now 12 years since Dallaglio earned the last of his 85 England caps, coming off the bench in the 2007 World Cup final defeat to South Africa in Paris, but the Londoner has remained grateful for the opportunities the sport provided him, so much so that rugby’s ethics are at the heart his RugbyWorks Foundation.
Its aim is simple – to tackle the issue of an average 2,720 young people between the ages of 14 and 16 being excluded on an annual basis from mainstream eduction in the UK. “Rugby has given me an awful lot in my life and I just felt when I retired that it was important that I find an opportunity to give something back to those who maybe aren’t as fortunate as us.
“Rugby has been good to me. It helped me at a difficult time in my life, it gave me a school system, a family and a set of values to build things around and that is where it came from really. It is just using the power of rugby to create positive outcomes for young people by giving them those opportunities.
It’s #InternationalDayOfCharity!
?? Find out more from @dallaglio8 and others about our vital work supporting the lives of young people in alternative provision through this fantastic film. pic.twitter.com/qL0XEusGiJ
— Dallaglio RugbyWorks (@DallaglioRW) September 5, 2019
“It’s a very serious topic, a very serious problem in areas, not just in the UK but all over the world. The gap between the people that have and the people that don’t have is getting bigger and there is an obligation on us.
“If I was 14 and I didn’t have someone looking after me or supporting me, would I want someone to come in and help me? The answer is yes, of course. You can use the values around rugby, around teamwork, respect, sportsmanship, enjoyment and discipline… and that is certainly what I have been trying to do through RugbyWorks.
“I’m very proud of what we have achieved. We are working in over 80 schools around the country working with people who have been permanently excluded from mainstream. But people continue to be excluded every single day so it is certainly not going away.”
WATCH: Lawrence Dallaglio and a number of other Land Rover ambassadors preview the 2019 World Cup
Land Rover is an official worldwide partner of Rugby World Cup 2019. With over 20 years of heritage supporting rugby at all levels, Land Rover is celebrating what makes rugby, rugby. #LandRoverRugby
Comments on RugbyPass
Super rugby is struggling but that has little to do with sabbaticals. 1. Too many teams from Aust and NZ - should be 3 and 4 respectively, add in 2 from Japan, 1 possibly 2 from Argentina. 2. Inconsistent and poor refereeing, admittedly not restricted to Super rugby. Only one team was reffed at the breakdown in Reds v H’Landers match. Scrum penalty awarded in Canes v Drua when No 8 had the ball in the open with little defence nearby - ideal opportunity to play advantage. Coming back to Reds match - same scrum situation but ref played advantage - Landers made 10 yards and were penalised at the breakdown when the ref should have returned to scrum penalty. 3. Marketing is weak and losing ground to AFL and NRL. Playing 2 days compared with 4. 4. Scheduling is unattractive to family attendance. Have any franchises heard of Sundays 2pm?
8 Go to commentsAbsolutely..all they need is a chance in yhe playoffs and I bet all the other teams will be nervous…THEY KNOW HOW TO WIN IM THE PLAYOFFS..
2 Go to commentsI really hope he comes back and helps out with some coaching.
1 Go to commentsI think we are all just hoping that the Olympic 7s doesn’t suffer the same sad fate as the last RWC with the officials ruining the spectacle.
1 Go to commentsPersonally, I’ve lost the will to even be bothered about the RFU, the structure, the participants. It’s all a sham. I now simply enjoy getting a group of friends together to go and watch a few games a year in different locations (including Europe, the championship, etc). I feel extremely sorry for the real fans of these clubs who are constantly ignored by the RFU and other administrators. I feel especially sorry for the fans of clubs in the Championship who have had considerable central funding stripped away and are then expected to just take whatever the RFU put to them. Its all a sham, especially if the failed clubs are allowed to return.
9 Go to commentsI’m guessing Carl Hayman would have preferred to have stayed in NZ with benefit of hindsight. Up north there is the expectation to play twice as many games with far less ‘player management’ protocols that Paul is now criticising. Less playing through concussions means longer, healthier, careers. Carter used as the eg here by Paul, his sabbatical allowed him to play until age 37. OK its not an exact science but there is far more expectations on players who sign for Top 14 or Engl Prem clubs to get value for the huge salaries. NZR get alot wrong but keeping their best players in NZ rugby is not one of them. SA clubs are virtually devoid of their top players now, no thanks. They cant threaten the big teams in the Champions Cup, the squads have little depth. Cant see Canes/Chiefs struggling. Super has been great this year, fantastic high skill matches. Drua a fantastic addition and Jaguares will add another quality team eventually. Aus teams performing strongly and no doubt will benefit with the incentive of a Lions tour and a home RWC. Let Jordie enjoy his time with Leinster, it will allow the opportunity for another player to emerge at Canes in his absence.
8 Go to commentsLove that man, his way to despise angry little men is so funny ! 😂
4 Go to comments“South African franchises would be powerhouses if we had all our overseas based players back in situ. We would have the same unbeatable aura the Toulouses, Leinsters or Saracens of this world have had over the last decade or so.” Proof that Jake white does not understand the economics of the game in SA. Players earning abroad are not going to simply come back and represent the bulls. But they might if they have a springbok contract.
22 Go to commentsA lot of fans just joined in for the fun of it! We all admire O'Gara and what he has done for La Rochelle
4 Go to commentsThe RFU will find a way to mess this up as usual. My bet is there will be no promotion into the the Premiership, only relegation into National League One. Hopefully they won’t parachute failed clubs into the league at the expense of clubs who have battled for promotion.
9 Go to commentsWell that’s the contracts for RG and Jordie bought and paid for. Now, what are the chances we can persuade Antoine to hop over with all the extra dosh we’ll have from living at the Aviva & Croke next season…??? 🤑🤑🤑
16 Go to commentsWow, that’s incredible. Great for rugby.
16 Go to commentsYou probably read that parling is going to coach the wallaby lineout but if not before now you have.
14 Go to commentsIf someone like Leo Cullen was in O’Gara’s place I don’t hear Boo-ing. It’s not just that La Rochelle has hurt Leinster and O’Gara is their Irish boss. It’s the needle that he brings and the pantomime activity before the game around pretending that Munster were supporting LaRochelle just because O’Gara is from Cork. That’s dividing Irish provinces just to get an advantage for his French Team. He can F*ck right off with that. BOOOOO! (but not while someone is lying injured)
4 Go to commentsDid the highlanders party too hard before the game? They were the pits.
1 Go to commentsWhat a player! Not long until he’s in the England side, surely?
5 Go to commentsHe seems to have the same aura as Marcus Smith - by which I mean he’s consistently judged as if he’s several years younger than he actually is. Mngomezulu has played 24 times for the Stormers. When Pollard was his age he had played 24 times for South Africa! He has more time to develop, but he has also had time to do some developing already, and he hasn’t demonstrated nearly as much talent in that time as one would expect. If he is a generational talent, then it must be a pretty poor generation.
6 Go to commentsThe greatest Springbok coach of all time is entirely on the money. Rassie and Jacques have given the south african public a great few years, but the success of the springbok selection policy will need to be judged in light of what comes next. The poor condition that the provincial system is currently in doesn’t bode well for the next few years of international rugby, and the insane 2026 schedule that the Boks have lined up could also really harm both provincial and international consistency.
22 Go to commentsJake White is a brilliant coach and a master in the press. This is another masterclass in media relations and PR but its also a very narrow view with arguments that dont always hold water. White wants his team to win, he wants the best players in SA and wants his team competitive. You however have to face up to the reality of a poor exchange rate and big clubs with big budgets. SA Rugby cant compete and unless it can find more money SA players will keep leaving regardless of Springbok eligibility and this happened in 2015 - 2017. Also rugby is not cricket. Cricket has 3 formats and T20 cricket is where the money is at. When it comes to club vs country the IPL is king but that wont happen because the international calendar does not clash with the club calendar in rugby. So the argument about rugby going down the same path as cricket is really a non-starter
22 Go to commentsNZ rugby seem not to have learnt anything from professional rugby. Super rugby was dying and SA left before they died with the competition. SA rugby did a u turn on their approach to international players playing overseas and such players are now selected for Bok teams. As much as each country would love to retain their players playing in local competitions, this is the way the world is evolving my friends. Move with it or stay 20 years behind the times. One more thing. NZ rugby hierarchy think they are the big cheese. Take a more humble approach guys. You do not seem to have your players best interests at heart.
8 Go to comments