Ex-Lions prop fears union going down the league route to solve scrummaging 'mess'
Ex-Wales prop Dai Young – a major front row force in both rugby codes – doesn’t want the current controversy over ‘boring’ scrums to force union to adopt a league style non-contest battle for the ball. The former Wasps director of rugby played in 54 Test games for Wales and the British and Irish Lions at tighthead prop, while he also won 14 caps for Wales as a rugby league player.
Crucially, he experienced the rugby league version of a scrum with Leeds and Salford which is merely a way of restarting the game with the players spending as little time as possible in formation. In rugby union, the only regulation currently in force to deal with the timing around scrums is Law 19.4 which states: “Teams must be ready to form the scrum within 30 seconds of the mark being made. Sanction; Free kick.”
However, there is at present no time limit on resets following collapsed scrums or incorrect binding, a situation which blighted the recent restart weekend of the 2019/20 Gallagher Premiership after a five-month lockdown period. The average ‘dead time’ recorded by Opta when the ball was not in play each of Premiership matches was over an hour.
Young, who spent eight years at Wasps until earlier this year and is eager to return to coaching, told RugbyPass: “I don’t want to go down the rugby league route but we have to find a way of speeding the scrums up. We have all be watching the old games and the scrum has been changed and it doesn’t really seem to be better.
“Safety always has to be paramount but we are in the entertainment business and people want to see exciting rugby. We need to keep the scrum because it does create space on the pitch and allows all shapes and sizes to play the sport. If you go to the extremes of a rugby league scrum then that is just a restart. Prop forwards are more skilled in union compared to when I was playing, but you can still spot a prop in a team environment.
"I'm not the first person to say it – and I'm a hooker"
– Steve Diamond is the latest to voice concerns about time-consuming scrums https://t.co/AclMS1wnyh
— RugbyPass (@RugbyPass) August 18, 2020
“If we went to a league style scrum, then traditional prop forwards would be lost to the game and you would have lots of back rowers, good at ball carrying but not required to push in the set-piece. It’s difficult at the moment with the cadence being asked for by referee – you have to balance your weight, hold that weight and not pre-engage, so the longer it takes doesn’t always give you a better scrum.
“We have to speed things up. That means the scrum gets formed quicker, and players also have a responsibility. We don’t want referees to guess at the scrum and some people have suggested if it’s your ball and the scrum is reset, then you could tap and go. That means if you have a weak scrum on your ball you just collapse and then tap and go.
“We have tried a slower cadence, which hasn’t quite worked. You still want to win the hit without going through the mark. Referees do need to get stricter and rather than penalising the fourth reset scrum, why not penalise the first one?
“Plenty of ex-front row forwards have spent loads of time on scrums with World Rugby but it remains a difficult one to solve because there is no easy answer. In the last year, I have watched a lot of rugby further down the levels of the game and there isn’t as much of a problem down the pyramid. It’s more of a mess at the top of the sport.”
Sale boss Steve Diamond, a former hooker, described the current scrum as boring and as useful as King Herod was to babysitting. He said: “If you look at a lot of games over the weekend, the scrum timings of the set-up are enormous. It’s minutes. It’s crazy.
“I got some footage from 1975, 1980, 1985, 1990 and measured the scrums. They were three times quicker than now. That’s ridiculous. Where (the authorities) need to spend their attention is sorting that area out – all the resets, not in the right position. (Award a) free-kick to the other team.
“There’s no other sport in the world where you have something like a scrum, so either we take it out the game, which takes all the odd-shaped people out the game, or you have got 15 seconds to get your set-up sorted and you get on it. How many clean scrums do we see? Not many.”
In another development aimed at speeding up the sport, ex-New Zealand and Wales chief executive David Moffett told RugbyPass this week that he wants to see a new version of the sport using rules he has devised because “the scrums are a nightmare. The resets are just so boring. They eat up so much time.
“It’s the same for lineouts. The amount of time taken to throw the ball in at lineouts and get the lineout set and the amount of time it takes for a team throwing the ball in to actually get to the lineout… I mean, we’re moving away so far away from what the game should be all about.”
With rugby as a sport becoming more "complicated" and "boring" as the years have passed, an ambitious former administrator has his sights set on a new variation of the code.@TomVinicombe with the story ??https://t.co/NGwgKcwz8Q
— RugbyPass (@RugbyPass) August 18, 2020
Comments on RugbyPass
The World Cup has to be the gold standard, line in the sand. 113 teams compete for what is the opportunity to make the pool stages, and then the knockout games for the trophy. The concept is sound. This must have been the rationale when the World Cup was created, surely? But I’m all for Looking forward and finding new ways for the SH to dominate the NH into the future. The autumn series needs a change up. Let’s start by having the NH teams come south every odd year for the Autumn/Spring series games?
1 Go to commentsWhat’ll happen when the AI models of the future go back in time and try to destroy the AI models of the past standing in their way of certain victory?
41 Go to commentsThanks, Nick. We (Seanny Maloney, Brett and I) just discussed Charlie as a potential Wallaby No 8, and wondered if he has truly realised how big he is in contact (and whether he can add 5 kg w/o slowing down). Your scouting report confirms our suspicions he has the materiel. No one knows if he has the mentality (as Johann van Graan said this week about CJ, Duane and Alfie B) to carry 10-15 times a game.
57 Go to commentsHe would be a great player for the Stormers, Dobbo should approach the guy.
3 Go to commentsGood article. A few years back when he was playing for the Cheetahs, he was a quiet standout for exactly the seasons stated here. I occasionally get to see his games in the UK, and he has become a more complete player and in many ways like an Irish player. His work ethic is so suitable to the Leinster game. I wonder if Rassie would have him listed somewhere.
3 Go to commentsResults probably skewed by the fact that a few clubs have foreign fly halves in their 30s, but most teams have young English scrum halves. Results also likely to be skewed by the fact that many teams rely on centres and fullbacks to provide depth at 10, whereas they will need to stock a large number of specialist backup 9s.
1 Go to commentsI really get the sense that when all is said and done, the path of least resistance will end up being a merger of Wasps & Worcester that essentially kills the Worcester Warriors brand and sees Wasps permanently playing at Sixways. I’m not saying that’s what should happen or what I want to happen. I just think it’s the easiest rout to take and therefore, will be what happens. Wasps will definitely return to play first, and I suppose it all depends on if they can find support at Sixways. If people turn up and support Wasps in that community, at that ground, I bet they drop the Sevenoaks plan and just remain at Sixways. Under the radar but not totally unrelated, it looks as though London Irish are going to be brought back from the dead by a German consortium and look set to return, likely to the remade Championship. It’s set to have 12 clubs next season with 14 in 2025/26, what do you want to bet those extra 2 are Wasps and London Irish?
2 Go to commentsThe shoulder is a “joint” with multiple bones. You don’t “fracture” a shoulder, you fracture any one or more of the bones that make up a shoulder.
2 Go to commentsOh dear, bones too suspect to continue?
2 Go to commentsBold headline considering the Canes and Blues are 1 and 2 and the Brumbies were soundly beaten by the Chiefs and Blues. Biggest surprise is Rebels 4 Crusaders 12 - no one saw that coming. If Aus are improving that’s great 👍
1 Go to commentsAnna, You are right, we need to have patience whilst the others catch up to England and France. Also it is the PWR that has been the game changer for England. the RFU put money into that initially at the expense of the Red Roses. I was sceptical at first but it has paid off in spades.
1 Go to commentsI think Matt Proctor became a 1 test AB in the same fixture. Cameron is quality and has been great this season, can’t believe’s he only 27. Realistically how would he not be selected for ABs squad this year. Only Dmac is ahead of him as a specialist 10. With Jordan out, it will come down to where and when Beauden Barrett slots back in, and where they want to play Ruben Love. Cameron seems an absolute lock in for the wider squad though. Added benefit of TJ-Cameron-Jordie combination at 9, 10, 11 too.
1 Go to commentsFarcical, to what end would someone want to pay to keep this thing going.
1 Go to commentsHavili, our best 12 by a mile, will be in the squad, if he stays fit. JB is the most overrated AB in the last 50 years.
61 Go to commentsWe had during the week twilight footy, twilight cricket, tw golf plus there was the athletics club. Then the weekend was rugby 15s plus the net ball, really busy club scene back then but so much has changed and rugby has suffered. And it was all about changing lifestyles.
6 Go to commentsIn the 70s and 80s my club ran 5 Senior sides plus a Vets. Now it is 2 sides with an occasional 3rd team. Players have difficulty getting to training now, not sure why and the commitment is not there. It seems to me more a problem of people applying themselves and not expecting to turn up and play whenever they want to.
6 Go to commentsROG’s contract is until 2027. The conversation about a successor to Galthie after RWC 2027 may be starting now. We can infer that Galthie’s reign stops then. He is throwing the Irish Coaching Job angle in because he is Irish. The next Irish coach MUST be Leo Cullen. As well as being the best coach available, coaching the vast majority of Irish Internationals week in week out, he has shown incredible skill at recruiting the best coaching staff for the job in hand. That was a failing in France. Cullen is a shrewd guy and if there is a need for foreign coaches underneath him he won’t hesitate. Rightly so. Ireland does need to start to bring Irish coaches through. Not just at the professional level but we need to train coaches to man new pathways for developing kids from schools/clubs up through the divisions.
8 Go to commentsNo Islam says it must rule where it stands Thus it is to be deleted from this planet Earth
19 Go to commentsThis team probably does not beat the ABs sadly Not sure if BPA will be available given his signing for Force but has to enter consideration. Very strong possibility of getting schooled by the AB props. Advantage AB. Rodda/Skelton would be a tasty locking combination - would love to see how they get on. Advantage Wallabies. Backrow a risk of getting out hustled and outmuscled by ABs. Will be interesting to see if the Blues feast on the Reds this weekend the way they did the Brumbies we are in big trouble at the breakdown. Great energy, running and defence but goalkicking/general kicking/passing quality in the halves bothers me enormously. SA may have won the World Cup for a lot of the tournament without a recognised goalkicker but Pollard in the final made a difference IMO. Injuries and retirements leave AB stocks a bit lighter but still stronger. 12 and 13 ABs shade it (Barret > Paisami, Ione = Ikitau, arguably) Interesting clash of styles on the wings - Corey Toole running around Caleb Clark and Caleb running over the top of Toole. Reece vs Koro probably the reverse. Pretty even IMO. 15s Kelleway = Love See advantage to ABs man for man, but we are not obviously getting slaughtered anywhere which makes a nice change. Think talent wise we are pretty even and if our cohesion and teamwork is better than the ABs then its just about doable.
11 Go to commentsCompletely agree. More friday night games would be a hit. RFU to make sure every club has a floodlit pitch. Club opens again Saturday to welcome touch / tag. Minis and youths on Sunday
6 Go to comments