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Let’s not pretend this is a great All Blacks side who were robbed
I can only offer South Africa my heartiest congratulations.
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After watching them lose to the All Blacks at Mt Smart Stadium in July, I thought they were about to go the way of other ageing Rugby World Cup champions.
To me they had the look of New Zealand in 1991 and Australia in 1995 and were likely to pay the price for hanging onto guys whose best rugby days were behind them.
Throw in a 2023 tournament run that included physical encounters with Scotland, Ireland, France and England and I simply didn’t think some of those old blokes would have the legs to run with the All Blacks.
Well, I was wrong and the Springboks were the right winners of this Rugby World Cup. I was especially pleased for wing Cheslin Kolbe and captain Siya Kolisi, who would both have feared that spells in the sin bin might cost their team victory.
I’ve chuckled in the hours and days since the Springboks’ 12-11 win over the All Blacks.
It’s been comical to hear how many people aren’t familiar with the way rugby’s laws are interpreted or weren’t aware of the Television Match Official’s role.
This wasn’t a game that I’ll call contentious. I thought it was well-officiated and that the best team won.
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I’d prefer that New Zealanders were better-equipped to take defeat in their stride, but it appears not.
After all, you can’t say we haven’t had practice in recent seasons.
This has been a poor era for our national side and you would be one-eyed in the extreme to suggest otherwise.
Let’s not rewrite history here. Let’s not pretend this is a great side who were robbed of victory, having been expertly prepared by their head coach.
The evidence simply doesn’t support the argument.
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There are good players in this All Blacks’ team and I want to praise a few of them for their efforts in the final and this season.
Jordie Barrett was immense against the Springboks, as were Scott Barrett and Brodie Retallick. None of them could have done more to earn their team victory.
Aaron Smith was excellent and will be missed. Quite why he and Richie Mo’unga were replaced in the final is beyond me.
Mark Tele’a is another player whose performances are consistently outstanding. Ardie Savea too. Ethan de Groot and Tyrel Lomax aren’t far below that standard either.
That’s why I don’t support the argument – often put forward by apologists for coach Ian Foster – that we simply don’t have the cattle.
We had the talent, there just appeared to be something missing from that side. Call it consistency or clinical edge, there was just too great a disparity between this team’s best performance and its worst.
But I don’t think it’s grounds to scrap Super Rugby or rip up our player development pathway. It’s not time to change rugby’s laws or abandon the TMO.
We just need to take a breath, pass sober judgement over what worked and what didn’t in this coaching era and see what Scott Robertson can do when it’s his turn.
It’s a shame so many of this team won’t be around when Robertson assumes the head-coaching role, but such is the World Cup cycle.
It’ll be up to him to identify a new group of test footballers and quickly re-establish the winning culture that’s been the hallmark of All Black rugby.
If he can, he’ll be lauded. If not, then he’ll be subject to the sort of scrutiny that Foster got.
That’s high-performance sport.
For now, South Africa are world champions and deservedly so. More than that, they’re an inspirational and unifying force in a nation still facing massive social challenges.
The Springboks might not have played with huge style at this Rugby World Cup, but the substance of their squad is undoubted.
Theirs was a tough row to hoe, but they did it without fuss or excuses.
We’d do well to learn from that.
“Lord knows I’ll never be accused of being an All Blacks cheerleader, but I can’t see any other result in this final than a win to New Zealand by 10 to 12 points”.
Anyone can be forgiven for putting the ABs down for the win. But 10-12 points? A bizarre call.
Razor Robertson… finally takes over from Fozzie, who has shown his limitations more than once. Razor at least is a guy who understands that to win a final, then you need to do things differently and do different things - and it need not be pretty.
Obviously like all World Cup cycles afterwards you lose some key players who are retiring from ABs e.g., Sam W, Brodie, Aaron, Dane. There are those moving on, becoming ineligible but still able to come back and fight for a place e.g., Richie, Shannon, Ardie and Beauden, and there are those who stay in NZ eligible for ABs but in truth will be well past their sell-by date come next RWC27 e.g., Codie, Sam C
But Razor has a good core group to start…
1. (De Groot), (Williams), Rakete Stones (Bower)
2. (Taukei'aho), (Aumua) (Taylor**), Thomson, McAlsiter, Vikena
3. (Lomax), (Newell), Numia, Norris
4 & 5 (Barrett**), (Lord), (Vaii), Parkinson, Walker-Leawere, Darry, Delaney,
6. Flanders, Ah Kuoi, Finau, (Blackadder**) Lio-Wille
7. (Papalii), Kirifi, (Christie***) Choat
8. (Jacobson) , Iose, Lakai, (Sotutu), (Ioane**)
9. (Roigard), Ratima, (Christie), Fekotava
10. (McKenzie), (Perofeta), (Ioane), Burke
11 & 14. (Narawa), (Talea) Nani-Seturo, Springer, (Reece), (Clarke)
12. (Barrett*) (Tupea) Aumua
13. (Lienert-Brown ***) (Ioane) Poihipi, (Ennor*) McCleod
15. (Jordan), Sullivan
While I totally agree with the author’s headline, I cant entirely agree that the REF / TMO didn’t get some calls wrong.
That said, even as a die hard ABs supporter, I cant deny “WE LOST” the game because of our poor decision-making, the wrong game plan, the ABs psyche that you only win with tries and our coaches insistence on playing Beauden Barrett at full back.
You will notice I dont mention the loss of Sam Cane as a mitigating factor, we still held out the Bomb squad and had chances to win.
Not taking shots at goal - again Savea showed poor leadership in insisting on the line outs. He made the same mistake in the 101st game in Australia - kept going for the lineout instead of the points which the Boks easily countered.
Not attempting a drop goal - reminded me of our loss in Wellington in 2018 - nobody had the common sense to go for a drop goal - best case 3 points, worst case Boks must kick back.
Too many times Beauden inserted himself at #10 only to shovel the ball on as he always does nowadays for the ABs and Blues. He’s an attacking liability.
The truth is the ABs team and coaches just didnt understand that this was the RWC final - its won on small margins.
So I congratulate the Boks on winning 3 games by one point. I must say their sluggish performance against England probably saved them from a loss to the ABs, either that eye opener or Rassie has been using stimulants.
SA using stimulants? This is your latest excuse?
If you perceive an issue with drug abuse at pro rugby level then report. I’d suggest given that NZ would do anything to win an RWC you start there.
I must say the NZ reaction to loss is hilarious. Cool dark ‘humble’ all black heroes when winning. Rampaging cry babies when losing. The weird reaction to the Irish series loss is more understandable now. The anger wasn’t because POM said anything. It was because you lost, and you are the sorest losers of any sport on earth.
Hey guy - have you forgotten Suzie? This time round she was much more subtle. This time she didn’t make you guys puke and shit she just fed you with a very sophisticated poison used by the KhoiSan that slows down their prey and causes confusion.
1. Joe Moody (10)2. Dane Coles (35)3. Owen Franks (77)4. Brodie Retallick (46)5. Samuel Whitelock (72)6. Jerome Kaino (66)7. Richie McCaw (147) — captain8. Kieran Read (83), 2015 final and 2023 final 1 Ethan de Groot2 Codie Taylor3 Tyrel Lomax4 Brodie Retallick5 Scott Barrett6 Shannon Frizell7 Sam Cane (c)8 Ardie Savea, just figure it out for yourself, this is your problem the bench is even more worst, it is ok if you wants to play without any pressure.
Yes, this was a side full of inconsistencies. They were tactically inept in both thought and application. Turned down easy shots at goal, then stuffed up the lineout. No plan to execute drop kick, even though they only needed 2 points. Took Hail Mary penalty at end when lineout, if executed properly was a better bet! Add to this the dropped balls, loss at lineouts, discipline: we weren’t robbed, we weren’t up to it! We rode “Lady Luck” to get to the final
Can NW supporters show some integrity admit defeat and stop bringing the game into disrepute and referees and their spouses into danger by pretending you were robbed in that final. Do you care for the game of rugby or do you only care when NZ are winning it? It’s looking more and more like the latter.
Hey T. Read Michael’s comments above. He has added another excuse to the list of why the All Blacks lose crunch games to the Springboks. Purposeful food poisoning, refs, refs again, favourable draw and now another - stimulants. They just can’t help themselves :)
Just a clarificationon the rules, I thought an issue was with the disallowed ABs try was that it was about 5 phases before a try scored and the law states it is two phases from a try that an infringement can be ruled on? Or can they go back as far as they like??
The try was disallowed because there was a penalty infringement (Etzebeth playing the man in the air). Then the knock-on.
So going back and finding a penalty caused the knock-on meant that he couldn’t award the try, because advantage was lost at that point.
That’s my understanding. A freakish situation. Not sure if there’s ever been a similar incident.
Anyway. Barrett’s try was scored off a knock-on that was missed. All even now.
Yup for the build up to a try you can go back as far as the ref wants.
Hi Emery, in July of 2022 the laws were amended which prohibits officials from going back more than two phases. Thus, two phases is how far the officials can go back to overrule an onfield decision. It is even specified as such for “all clear and obvious knock-on or throw forward infringements within two phases leading to a possible try”.
What a straw man article. Few if anyone was saying that this was a great All Blacks team.
They deserve our respect though, knocking out their bogey team, the world number one Ireland, then coming within a point of a great Springbok team despite playing with 14 men. They have guts.
This dude knows it was a one point game, eh.
Oh dear, grieving Irish fans resurfacing to make themselves feel better. Noone takes advice from eight times RWC quarter finals losers my friends. Away with ya. Scat.
Never witnessed as much whining as from NZers after the match on Saturday. It was popcorn time with teh self righteous crybaby hypcrisy on display. You were 4th best team in the world cup. You couldn’t even beat a jaded SA. Apparently it was all Tom Foleys fault. Neither Ireland nor NZ won the RWC. The most sigficant results between us is obviously the NZ series. Tough luck but there it is.
Great article and honest perspective now that the dust has settled. The Boks have a reservoir of resilience that no other team possesses and once the ABs knocked Ireland out of the cup, this cup was theirs to lose. The challenge with the RWC is that it’s a 7 game snapshot every 4 years - nothing more. SA know that better than anybody else and they lift themselves during that window more so than any other team. That said, they did enough in between the cups to warrant being worth champs; if the ABs had managed to get over the line at the end - it' would’ve definitely not been the same sentiment and would’ve again shed light on how poor this year’s draw was.
A fair article - in the end this team just didn’t have the difficult to quantify ingredients that make a group champions.
It’s incredibly frustrating for an ABs fan, because watching them put in an incredible effort with 14 men - it was clear we had the quality, but ultimately after 4 years of Foz who really should know more about WC’s, they were not prepared for the biggest game of them all.
Cane remains an enigma - a sometimes very good player who’s had plenty of average moments in between his highlights. He perfectly matches Fozzie’s frustrating reign, a few great performances you could count on one hand, mixed with plenty of historic lows.
I can’t escape the fact that during the first 30 odd minutes of this game the boys looked rattled, over-awed, red headed - beaten. There was one team who were carrying the expectation of the nation comfortably, and they weren’t wearing black. It was noticeable how much the team lifted when Cane was gone - which might have little to do with Sam, perhaps they were just more comfortable being underdogs. Whatever the reason, the expectation they had built over the last month didn’t seem to sit well with Cane and the team.
Harsh? If a war was breaking out tomorrow and you had to join Cane’s or Kolisi’s army - which would you choose?
As for RM - perhaps a little harsh to compare him to Carter. Carter needed to loose a WC to learn to drop kick. Richie’s been messed around so much under Foz, he still feels a little inexperienced as a backline general. This loss could do him a world of good, imagine another 4 years under Razor being backed 100%. I guess we’ll never know.
And how much were we missing Fainga'anuku and Roigard in that second half? Ultimately those two selection errors could sum up Fozzie’s reign. Compare him to Rassie who showed no nostalgia in his selections, he made tough decisions, rolled the dice, and won.
Foster is a decent bloke who built his reign on loyalty, sometimes blind in a few instances. But ultimately wasn’t ruthless enough to make decisive calls and some of those players he was so loyal to didn’t deliver when it really mattered. Much like the coach, his team was a great bunch of guys who tried their all but didn’t quite have the killer instinct or ruthlessness when it counted.
Despite the many things that went against them, they had their chances but not the calm confidence to take them. Compare them to SA who hardly played any rugby, the stats confirm that. But they took their chances, won the big plays when it mattered and simply believed more from minute 0-80.
The reason why SA and Ireland played their pool match like a final was because they thought there was no realistic route from Pool B ‘the hard way’. It turned out there was as Ian Foster’s New Zealand could not put away a weakened tired SA. Now SA lucked out with the rain but NZ have to win that match. Golden opportunity and not much SA can do if NZ put in a performance.
Not only is it not a great team, making the final can’t overwrite the fact it’s one of the all-time worst.
No other AB team has lost more games at a world cup.
In reality, they only played one good game at the tournament against top opposition and that should never be enough to win it all.
And of course, they can't be judged by the WC alone, but the rest of the bad would take all night.
Robertson has a lot to do, made even harder by the mess left behind by his predecessor and years of absent player and game plan development, player retention and positional confusion.
Yip, we're told the players backed Foster, but when in history has a current (at the time) AB ever criticised the existing coach and bite the hand that feeds them? Only a handful of senior players made their support known; there are a lot of players whose opinions we’ve never heard.
Remember Whitelock playing the SR final, ignoring the directive?
I really think one of the big problems is that TV presenters like Wilson just keep on making Kiwis believe all is Ok it’s a bit of a blip and the AB’s really are still the best team on the plkanet.
Nailed it Sam. It’s been a frustrating and dismal era of AB rugby. Razor takes over today and I’m sure we’ll see players selected in their actual positions going forward. We’ll see game plans and tactics designed to baffle and beat opponents. We’ll see players supported and backed to play with instinct. Michael Hooper after being coached by Robertson in the Barbars last year stated that he went in thinking Razor would be a bit of a joke. He came away saying that he was amazed at how good a coach the man is and felt he’d love to play under him much more. He also predicted that the ABs will prosper in the Robertson era and become a formidable force in world rugby once again. I agree, and am very happy to see the back of the final installment of the Henry/NZR old boys club. This should never have happened.
The Ireland game they were preparing for since the series loss. They had Joe Schmidt to adopt a new defense to counter Ireland and to tweak the attack to hurt them The had a 5 week run in after the France loss. Ireland were distracted by a big game the week before and they were meeting Ireland in a QTR final where they would be most vulnerable. NZ played a super match, but not as great a win as has been touted.
I actually think Fosters fixation with Ireland hurt NZ. He mentioned the cards in the 3rd test 3 times during teh world cup including the pressser after the final. WTF?
I don’t think NZ players will look back with much pride in how they behaved to retiring Irish players and Irish supporters after that match. Roberston needs to bring the respect back.
They will need to earn it off thr pitch as well as on it though
Whilst I agree with the main argument that this isn’t a great All Blacks side - I think it’s worth remembering that in all likelihood, if the penalty in the 74th minute had been successful, ( or the missed conversion ) we would be lauding the All Blacks and discussing what South Africa did wrong. The inability to reverse a penalty awarded the wrong way and acknowledged as such also impacted and I hear little of this in discussions- if luck plays a role in the game ( and it clearly does in the bounce of the ball - then I think it’s fair to say that the Boks were fortunate winners - ( just as the Black Ferns were against France last year with a missed kick at the end) -but of course winners also make their own luck and so yes - congrats to the Boks - well done - magnificent defence in particular-but let’s not get too carried away by either the greatness of the winners or the deficiencies of the losers- it really could have gone either way.
Dave you are the master of if’s. If if if if. The Ab’s are the dirtiest team on the planet and have conceded 50% more cards for foul play than any other first tier team. And this is not just in the past four years between 2014 and 2018 the All Blacks got 52 cards for foul play. They are serial head hunters. The AB’s lost the final to SA because SA are better drilled in height adjustment in the tackle and Cane got it wrong - again. Frizell’s neck roll and purposeful falling on to an extended leg full knowing that the hyperextension would cause serious injury was one of the filthiest underhanded cowardly acts in a WC final.T. Oh it was just co-incidental that with Bongi in the scrums Sa would have again obliterated the AB’s. The Boks weren’t lucky. The AB’s were at their dirtiest best and they got their just rewards. If they don’t clean up their act they will lose a lot more crunch games. And if you don’t believe me check the stats for cards for dirty play.
ABs were lucky the Boks didn’t convert 4 drop goals. Could very easily have been 24-11 and your 74th minute pen would’ve been meaningless.
In the knockouts SA have shown they win close games. They are ahead when the final whistle is blown. I did not see anything in that match to show that NZ would alter that. The opposite.
Would Pollard have landed that kick? The answer is yes. That answers your what ifs too.
If either of those kicks had gone over, who is to say that SA would have not galvanised themselves for one more push to grab a try, penalty or drop goal. It’s easy to say what if but it was plain to see who the better team was and you have to accept it. Many of us would have wanted a French win given the romance of the game and their previous RWC final appearances but sport is not about fantasy but reality and grabbing the initiative. The first half was brutal from SA and they suffocated NZ as they tend to do when it matters. Massive credit to NZ but they did not deserve to win.
By that argument we could say that had manie Libbok and faf de Klerk not missed 11 points against Ireland we would’ve won that game. We could also them argue that had Polly missed one of his conversions or penalties we would’ve lost any of our final games. This is just an excuse and it is frankly ironic in light of the main point of this article, which is the fact that NZ is not well equipped to lose/makes excuses.
If, if, if! If Richie and Jordie HAD the NERVE like Pollard did, it ain’t luck! Or are you suggesting that a shot at goal involves luck to get it over or mis? They simply weren’t up to the challenge like Pollard was all tournament. And I can recall Barnes saying after the Savea penalty that there wasn’t enough daiylight for him to award Savea the penalty. I agree with you ending, however I would rephrase it and say, let’s marvel at the greatness of both teams! The Boks in their resolve and defense and the All Blacks for how they stuck in that game with 14 men! It wasn’t a points flare match but ooohhh my was it beautiful!
First AB writer that writes sense 10/10.
Great Team that played awesome rugby winning teams 97/0 and one of their players equaled Jonah Lomu 8 tries.
At the end of the day, I’ll be honest even though I am a Springbok to me both teams were equality good sometimes you need luck, and the luck of the draw was on our side Barrett missed that last kick.
Agree Sam - my point really is that the narrative being told on these sites and by a lot of fans is on the basis of a game that I think non-partisan viewers ( of which I’m obviously not one) would agree that either side could have won this game - in which case the narratives been told would be reversed - and still not reflecting the closeness of the game. And yes- I’m pretty sure Pollard wouldn’t have missed those kicks!
The luck of the draw was on NZ side. Once they lost to France they had the easiest run in of any of the 4 main contenders
Great article. Two magnificent teams playing contrasting styles. That is what sport is about. The only difference on the day was composure. The Boks showed it and won.
NZ had their opportunities. One kick that went over and they were champions.
Both teams had opportunities to score tries. It came down to kicks at goal, like most finals do.
Why did NZ not go for a drop goal?
I have huge respect for the AB'S playing with 14 men. They showed they are a champion side. Well done to the Boks. Go Bokke!!!!!
Nce comment- thanks- but noting that a try was scored
It’s obvious that this ABs team are not one of the great teams given that over the four years, they have not been able to string together performances. Crikey, at the beginning of the tournament the feeling was this team would be the worst ever All Blacks team and they would’ve been in if they hadn’t beaten Ireland. But it doesn’t necessarily need a great team to win the World Cup - regardless of all that happened and the power of SA defence, the final boiled down to option taking and goal kicking. We can’t fault their ambition, but they should’ve kicked the kickable penalties. That’s what they did against Ireland, so why not in the final? They may not have been the better team, but that doesn’t mean you can’t win, it’s a matter of taking your chances.
They certainly still haven’t worked out how to pick impact players, although they did really well with the forwards bench this time around.
However, they must’ve made a decision ages ago that they needed Christie’s experience (but he doesn’t actually have a lot of experience), but picking him made no sense - it was going to be wet, it was going to be physical - why would you not pick a big strong player like Roigard who can break tackles? It’s also questionable why after Fainga'anuku was so effective in the one truly tough match the All Blacks won, he wasn’t considered for the bench. They needed another power back. You could argue they could’ve picked him instead of Mckenzie - I didn’t see the point of picking Mckenzie if you’re only going to bring him on for a few minutes hoping for a miracle. They also completely lost the game in the air, whereas Fainga'anuku was great in the air against the Irish.
Of course the weather was also against playing an attacking game - on a dry day, Reiko Ioane would’ve made a better attempt at scoring in the corner, but he looked a bit slow in the wet - but then again if it was Tal’ea he would’ve cut back in rather than go for the corner when there was clearly not enough space. It was also the worst possible time or maybe there was too much expectation, for Will Jordan to play his worst game. He probably should’ve been pulled earlier - if only they had the option to bring on Fainga'anuku.
Excellent article. You restored my faith in this site. Full rugby values when the general tendency is to assimilate to soccer.
Good reading, thanks.
Great analysis. 100% agree on all points.
Respect to you. Beautifully narrated.
👌🙏❤️🙏