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Ireland and South Africa have developed quite a peculiar rivalry in recent months as it is one that was not created on the pitch, nor does it really involve anyone in either camp.
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Instead, this is a rivalry created by everyone else in the rugby community debating who is the best team in the world ahead of their much-anticipated two-Test series in July.
The Springboks have a few aces in the hole in this debate being the reigning world champions and official world number ones, but Ireland have had plenty of advocates since their victorious Guinness Six Nations campaign, or even before then.
While the two camps grow more vociferous as we edge closer to their blockbuster series, one thing that has barely been seen is someone breaking ranks and criticising their own side.
But former Ireland wing Andrew Trimble is one who is not wholly convinced by the hype surrounding the side he represented 70 times.
Speaking on his Potholes and Penguins podcast, the former Ulster wing dissected Ireland’s Six Nations campaign and provided context to each one of their performances.
“If they’d have beaten England, I still feel we would have been talking ‘is this the best team ever,’ ‘is this the best team that’s ever played in the Six Nations'” he said.
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“I still think they’re not quite that good. I actually don’t think they’re that good.
“There’s a story behind every game, there’s context behind every game.
“First game in Marseille, that was peak France without Antoine Dupont. Peak France. The biggest deficit that Dupont left was in that first game.
“Italy was like unopposed, playing beautiful flowing phase play against no defence. Having said that, Italy then got their finger out after that.
“We stuttered against Wales, we didn’t have anywhere near the same flow.
“England, we obviously completely cocked up. Now we’re saying ‘Oh England at Twickenham’ – no one was saying that, everyone was saying England are shit, they’ve been shit for two years, we’re going to spank them. And we got a beating.
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“We got outsmarted, outfoxed in the first 40 minutes by Scotland and we had to go to a really simplistic gameplan to get the game over the line. And we still nearly cocked it up. Scotland made 240 tackles. Do you have any idea how exhausted they must have been and still Huw Jones runs from 40 and scores.
“So it’s not that good of an Irish side.”
@potholesandpenguins This is a very good Irish team but is it the greatest? #sixnationsrugby #irishrugby #thearcticcamel ? original sound – Potholes and Penguins
I think Felix Jones flew under a lot of people’s radars because he was listed as a consultant rather than as a coach, but signs with England seem really promising so far. I guess he has fingers in a lot of pies now, so could end up coaching England, SA, or Ireland one day. None of those teams are likely to need a new head coach anytime soon though, so he’ll probably just stick as England assistant, unless he really wants a top job and decides to go to a tier 2 nation or to a domestic side.
I think even if a succession plan had been in place it would be worth throwing it away and keeping Rassie. Atm he’s definately the best coach in the world - although it will be interesting to see what Borthwick and Robertson are able to do over the next 4 years.
Yeah. Im assuming Jacque’s contract is extended.
I was so relieved when news broke of Rassie taking the role to 2027. Precisely because there hadn’t been any obvious work done on succession in the coaching role. Unless of course this was the plan.
His contract with Leinster will definately preclude working with the Boks, but his contract probably hasn’t been signed all the way to 2027 yet. If Rassie intends to leave after 2027 he could make Jacques aware in advance and bring him back into the fold.
A lot of people speak very highly of Brown, but his resumé isn’t that great. He might want to work for the ABs, but I really think they have better options. Jerry Flannery is a defence coach for one of the worst defensive sides in the prem; a really baffling appointment.
I’m not 100% sure on exactly what Stick does. But yes it is with the backs. I believe it’s on attack. He has a sevens background. I believe he works on special skills. In the backline. Sick as a dog with flu and I don’t have the energy to google it.
I’m not convinced on Dobson either.
I’m definitely not open to Jake White. That would be going backwards. He’s had his heyday. He’s too polarizing.
I was thinking about Jacques too. Maybe once his family is grown up - perhaps he could come back into the fold. I wonder if he doesn’t come in for the 2027 World Cup as a consultant? I wonder if he’d be precluded from that being contracted to Leinster?
Names in the hat right now arent as important to me as what the succession timing and process looks like and when we see clues of what they’re thinking.
You don’t rate Tony Brown? I don’t know much about Jerry so I can’t comment on him. But Tony seems like a good move. But it won’t be a long term move. He has AB ambitions I suspect/believe.
What specifically is Sticks specialism? I know he is listed as a backs coach, but given SA have separate defence and attack coaches, is he essentially a kicking coach?
That’s an interesting idea, but if they wanted to warm up the SA public to the idea of a foreign coach then you’d have thought they’d do it by hiring better foreign assistants!
I think for me, the best SA candidates to succeed Rassie if he stepped down tomorrow would be (in order) Jacques Nienaber, Johan van Graan, Jake White, & Franco Smith. I’m not convinced by Dobson.
I agree. I think Rassie could go beyond 2027. promotion from within is always first prize. But we must make sure we have someone in the mix for that. Options.
Could Felix Jones come back in a few years? After gaining some experiences at England? Just as an example. Not saying that’s what must happen. Sometimes a stint away is good. Whoever it is I do prefer the idea of a coach with international coaching or experience.
Stick has grown tremendously with the Boks. But I don’t believe either he nor Human are head coach candidates. I think they’re specialists in their field.
There’s a part of me that thinks bringing Jerry and Tony in now is about potentially priming the ground for the openness to an international coach.
But having said that, it will interesting to see which if any SA international ready coaches get on the radar or put their hands up. Would a Dobson be interested? But I feel he would need a stint overseas. Some of the guys overseas? I hope there are some clues to this planning soon.
To be fair, its not clear to me that Rassie will need succeeding anytime soon. Things might take a turn for the worse, but if they do an external appointment might be preferable to promotion from within.
The real issue is with the overall standard of assistant coaches not being high enough.
Currently it does just seem like there isn’t anyone who could take over from Rassie and it would need to be an external appointment, or am I unfairly looking past Davids and Stick?
Aha. An Irishman with logic!
Follow the flow:
- Ireland peaks with a >80% win record between 2020 and 2023.
And then…
- crashes out of another QF at the WC;
- Beat a poor French Team;
- Beat 6N wooden spoonists Italy;
- Play shite against eventual wooden spoonists Wales;
- Lose against the most boring, “the worst English team ever” , a team widely regarded as unable to attack;
- scrape through against Scotland.
This article, No - Trimble, is on the money!
Except for one glaring statement:
The Springboks have a few aces in the hole in this debate being the reigning world champions and official world number ones
There is no debate, boys and girls. There it is. In black and white. “Reigning World Champions and OFFICIAL world number ones”.
Come July, the overrated Andy Farrell and this overhyped team are going to enter into a world of hurt.
Best team ever…. To have played? These guys are still pressure chokers. Came nowhere when it counted. What a joke
So if this ain’t the best Irish team ever then who exactly is? I don’t remember any other Irish team being this good & winning a series in the Land of the Long White Cloud.
Yes I may rip them often for 8 X QF RWC exits & twice not even making it to the QF, but they’re a damn good team who many think can only improve, including me!
That was just a sh1t NZ team maybe. I think Ireland are going to get worse from here out.
Everywhere you turn some irish journo is advocating Ireland as the greatest, reasoning that the wc is a 4 year cycle event so, they say wc doesn’t matter it’s the rugby in between that should account for the accolade. If there was no wc then some substance could be gained, however in my opinion the moment that defined Ireland’s fate against the abs was 37 phases of repeated head bashing against a brick wall. If a change in strategy or a tinker with the game plan was executed then things could've been vastly different. And to point a finger the let down was in the hands of the number 10.
Show me ONE example of an Irish journo saying such a thing you strange man.
Overheard conversation between NZ and SA rugby fans everywhere:
We’re the greatest!
No! we’re the greatest!
We’re the greatest!
No we’re the greatest!
Ireland are arrogant!
True but they beat you!
We’re the greatest!
No! we’re the greatest!
Etc. etc, etc.
Yeah, and ours is waaay bigger than yours.
Just as you's get a semi…oh hold on that never happens
Overheard conversation between NZ and SA rugby fans everywhere:
We’re the greatest!
No! we’re the greatest!
We’re the greatest!
No we’re the greatest!
Ireland are arrogant!
True but they beat you!
We’re the greatest!
No! we’re the greatest!
Etc. etc, etc.
Overheard conversation between NZ and SA rugby fans everywhere:
We’re the greatest!
No! we’re the greatest!
We’re the greatest!
No we’re the greatest!
Ireland are arrogant!
True but they beat you!
We’re the greatest!
No! we’re the greatest!
Etc. etc, etc.
All I hear is Blah Blah Blah…….
lol so childish.
We’re both the greatest.
Ireland only recently started taking rugby seriously. Before that it was, what, wiffle ball or something. That game with a broom stick?
Who cares. 🔍
To make claims Ireland are the greatest is not only arrogant but also ignorant. But they are going to be right up ther if they take out SA. It’ll put everyone on notice.
That’s what happens when you have seven World Cups between you. 🤣 Yes, Ireland have been good of late but, honestly, in terms of the greatest measure of success (that little golden cup called Bill) comparing South Africa and New Zealand to Ireland is a bit like comparing Real Madrid and Barcelona to Wrexham.
Ireland lost because the draw was unfair.
That’s an accurate summation of your incessant whining since the ABs spanked Ireland in the quarters.
“If they’d have beaten England, I still feel we would have been talking ‘is this the best team ever,’ ‘is this the best team that’s ever played in the Six Nations'” he said.
“I still think they’re not quite that good. I actually don’t think they’re that good.”
So Trimble is saying he doesn’t think this is the best 6N team of all time. He is silent on if it is the best Irish team of all time. Can’t disagree with him. Just another misrepresentative clickbait headline from the guys at RP.