'It's a red card, it's not even up for debate': The Rugby Pod's reaction to Fagerson's sending-off
The Rugby Pod co-hosts Andy Goode and Jim Hamilton have been left bemused by fans who believe the red card brandished last Saturday to Scotland prop Zander Fagerson was wrong. The front row was sent off after charging into a breakdown and connecting with the head of Wyn Jones.
There has been debate as to whether mitigation should have been applied as Stuart Hogg was moving Jones upwards at the ruck, a movement that exposed Jones’ head to the full force of Fagerson’s collision.
However, Pod duo Goode and Hamilton were steadfast in their agreement with the decision of referee Matt Carley who gave Fagerson the red card in a match which Scotland went on to narrowly lose and leave Wales with two wins from two ahead of hosting England in Cardiff on February 27.
Kicking off their discussion on the second-half incident which was brought to the attention of Carley by his TMO, ex-England out-half Goode said: “There are so many people around the game with different opinions, both in the game and fans.
“All of a sudden there are loads of these people with names like Gary126946432 on Twitter who think they have got the right opinion all the time, they just go out abusing people. It’s a red card. Letter of the law these days, it is a red card, isn’t it?”
It is a red card. Not as bad as POM last week. Zander ran in from distance at speed and contact to the head with a closed arm. #SCOWAL
— Jim Hamilton (Vice Captain) (@jimhamilton4) February 13, 2021
Ex-Scotland lock Hamilton agreed: “100 per cent. The Twitter thing is interesting. I’m not hugely outspoken on there but this weekend I have been on a few things and, as you said, I don’t know whether it is because people are bored or they think there is negativity behind some of our comments when we put them out there.
“We are obviously well placed in understanding the game, understanding the laws, understanding the interpretations of a lot of parts of the games. When it comes to these red card scenarios everyone who has listened to this (Pod) knows my take on it: I don’t want to necessarily see that as a red card because the game comes to an end then, you may as well call it. How many games do you see when you go down to 14 men?”
Goode interjected: “But you say that, then Hoggy [Stuart Hogg] scores that try to put Scotland back in front down to 14 men and Scotland can still win the game. It was only a bit of magic by (Louis) Rees-Zammit, a lovely ball by (Willis) Halaholo on the edge to put him that they end up winning the game.
“It wasn’t like it all of a sudden became a definite result, that Scotland were definitely going to lose because Fagerson has got sent off. The week before, Ireland could have won that game (without the red-carded Peter O’Mahony), so certain times I completely agree with you but for me, it didn’t affect the game and make it a guaranteed win for Wales.”
Here is how the rest of The Rugby Pod commentary on the sudden exit of Scotland prop Fagerson unfolded:
JH: “But that’s why they won the game, I don’t think Wales would have won (without the red).”
AG: “I’m not saying they would have won. What I am saying is, it wasn’t like a foregone conclusion because he got sent off that Wales were going to win the game.”
JH: “We should dissect Fagerson’s red card with an open cloth. Going back to my point, in a year or two gone by we’re probably sat at home thinking there is no way that’s a red card. That is way a red card now, unfortunately.
'S*** I would have seen a lot of reds if I played today'
Unlike POM's red last week, some think Fagerson was harshly treated #SCOvWAL #sixnationshttps://t.co/GI5AiBlJp1
— RugbyPass (@RugbyPass) February 13, 2021
“Me and Zander were messaging after the game as well, just saying look mate unfortunate for you, you have been class. I don’t think there was any malice in it. It was one of those rugby incidents that happen. Arguably if Wyn Jones doesn’t get rolled over in the breakdown he might not have hit his head but he did hit his head with force at distance with a closed arm.
“This is the thing where the game is now and we have all become keyboard warriors and we are all sat there what about this, what about that? It doesn’t matter about what about this and what about that. Looking at that and that is what has been highlighted by the TMO, and when it unfolded I thought we have got off with one there.
“I didn’t know he had connected with the head but normally with the force generated and the way that Wyn Jones went down, the framework of the game now and looking after players’ heads you can’t do that now.
“Whether or not it is an accident or not, we’ll reiterate, you go into a breakdown with a closed arm, with a run-up, flying into it and your shoulder connects with an opposition player’s head, it’s a red card. It’s not even up for debate. There is no debate around it and this was the tweet that went out there and unfortunately for Zander, who is not a dirty player, he is off boss.”
AG: “Rory Best summed it up pretty well on the box when he was saying there was no sort of stutter-step when he got to the ruck, he just flew in from seven, eight metres full bore and unfortunately in doing that, some people say well you need that force to be able to clear someone out and unfortunately in doing that, not having a stutter step, not setting his feet before he goes to hit the contact where you do lose some momentum, he did make contact with his head…
“If Wyn Jones has been hit in the head with that force and it’s a red card you have got to have HIA and be checked out. You can’t say you have been hit in the head and say I’m fine, I’ll play on because it then starts to look at other things creeping into the game where people are appealing too much and we don’t want to go down that route as well.”
Watson has taken to social media to walk back his explosive comments on Fagerson's red card. https://t.co/jJwPNdM7jB
— RugbyPass (@RugbyPass) February 15, 2021
Comments on RugbyPass
🤦♂️🤣 who cares who’s the best . All I know is the All Blacks have the star coach but have few star players now …
26 Go to commentsJe suis sûr que Farrell est impatient de jouer avec Lopez et Machenaud et d’être entraîné par Collazo… 🤭
1 Go to commentsAn on field red (aka a full red) in SRP must surely carry a bigger suspension than a red card given by the bunker as that carries a 20 minute team punishment. Had Damon Murphy abdicated his responsibility as a ref and issued both Drua players a yellow, which would have been upgraded to a 20 minute red by the bunker, that would have killed Australia and New Zealand’s push for the 20 minute red to be trialled globally from July this year.
11 Go to commentsEver so often you all post a Danny Care story that isn’t the announcement that he has finally re-signed for one more, victory tour season at Quins and I’m just like, “well you fooled me again!” My absolute favorite player ever, we need to make his final year at the Stoop (and Twickers) official already. I know he supposedly snubbed France but I won’t feel better until he signs.
1 Go to commentslate hit what late hit it wasn’t at all late and can clearly see he was committed before the tackle
1 Go to commentsChristian Lio -Willies 2 try perfomance was a standout. As was captain Scott Barrett. Up front was where the boys won it.They are a great team and players. Fantastic Crusades , you can keep going.
1 Go to commentsI don't know how the locals feel about that? I guess if you call yourselves the Worcester Wasps that might be appease. But really we need more teams in the Premiership in my view so they are not padding it out as they are at the moment. It might curtail so many players going abroad as well
5 Go to commentsNZ 😭😭😭is certainly rivaling England for best whingers cup!😭😭😭 !!!
26 Go to commentsYup. New Zealand won 3 out of 10 world cups played. SA 4 out of 8 attempts 30 Vs 50 per cent.🤔🤔
26 Go to commentsShould've done this years ago. Change Saturday kick off times to around 11am. Up and off and back home before 3pm, limit travel time too. Allows players to actually do something else with their Saturday that's family oriented or being rugby fans they could ‘watch’ pro rugby. Increases crowds etc. How can anyone that enjoys grassroots and pro rugby have to choose between the two on Saturdays?
9 Go to commentsI bet he inspired those supporters just as much.
1 Go to commentsBen Smith Springboks living rent free in his head 😊😂
67 Go to commentsGood to hear he would like to play the game at the highest level, I hadn’t been to sure how much of a motivator that was before now. Sadly he’s probably chosen the rugby club to go to. Try not to worry about all the input about how you should play rugby Joey and just try to emulate what you do on the league field and have fun. You’ll limit your game too much (well not really because he’s a standard athlete like SBW and he’ll still have enough) if you’re trying to make sure you can recycle the ball back etc. On the other hard, you can totally just try and recycle by looking to offload any and everywhere if you’re going to ground 😋
1 Go to commentsThis just proves that theres always a stat and a metric to use to justify your abilities and your success. Ben did it last week by creating an imaginary competition and now you did the same to counter his argument and espouse a new yardstick for success. Why not just use the current one and lets say the Boks have won 4 world cups making them the most successful world cup team. Outside of the world cup the All Blacks are the most successful team winning countless rugby championships and dominating the rankings with high win percentages. Over the last 4 years statistically the Irish are the best having the highest win rate and also having positive records against every tier 1 side. The most successful Northern team in the game has been England with a world cup title and the most six nations titles in history. The AB’s are the most dominant team in history with the highest win rate and 3 world cups. Lets not try to reinvent the wheel. Just be honest about the actual stats and what each team has been good at doing and that will be enough to define their level of success.
26 Go to commentsHow is 7’s played there? I’m surprised 10 or 11 man rugby hasn’t taken off. 7 just doesn’t fit the 15s dynamics (rules n field etc) but these other versions do.
9 Go to commentsPick Swinton at your peril A liability just like JWH from the Roosters Skelton ??? went missing at RWC
14 Go to commentsLike tennis, who have a ranking system, and I believe rugby too, just measure over each period preceding a world cup event who was the longest number one and that would be it. In tennis the number one player frequently is not the grand slam winner. I love and adore the All Blacks since the days of Ian Kirkpatrick when I was a kid in SA. And still do because they are the masters of running rugby and are gentleman on and off the field - in general. And in my opinion they have been the majority of the time the best rugby team in the world.
26 Go to commentsHaving overseas possessions in 2024 is absurd. These Frenchies should have to give the New Caledonians their freedom.
21 Go to commentsBell injured his foot didn’t he? Bring Tupou in he’ll deliver when it counts. Agree mostly but I would switch in the Reds number 8 Harry Wilson for Swinton and move Rob Valentini to 6 instead. Wilson is a clever player who reads the play, you can’t outmuscle the AB’s and Springboks, if you have any chance it’s by playing clever. Same goes for Paisami, he’s a little guy who doesn’t really trouble the likes of De Allende and Jordie Barrett. I’d rather play Carter Gordon at 12 and put Michael Lynagh’s boy at 10. That way you get a BMT type goalkicker at 10 and a playmaker at 12. Anyways, just my two cents as a Bok supporter.
14 Go to commentsThanks Brett, love your articles which are alway pertinent. It’s a difficult topic trying to have a panel adjudicating consistently penalties for red card issues. Many of the mitigating reasons raised are judged subjectively, hence the different outcomes. How to take away subjective opinions?
11 Go to comments