Why the 'scariest man' Ben Kay even met didn't make his Immortals XV
Ben Kay has become the final BT Sport rugby pundit to name his Premiership Immortals XV ahead of this Saturday’s round-table debate show featuring the former Leicester second row, Lawrence Dallaglio, Austin Healey and Ugo Monye.
The 2003 England World Cup winner included a chunk of his old Tigers teammates but one of the most interesting parts of his selection chat with presenter Craig Doyle surrounded his description of a player he didn’t pick.
“If he still lived in the UK, I would have gone for Henry Tuilagi,” admitted Kay when sifting through the other contenders for the No8 position he awarded to Dallaglio, his current TV colleague.
“We didn’t see enough of him but if he had stayed fit and stayed in England, he would have been the best Tuilagi we have seen and certainly the scariest man I have ever met.
“There is a picture online of him and his brothers and Manu looks about half the size of him – and Manu is a big boy. He is frighteningly big.
“We did a boxing session just for fitness. Martin Johnson was holding a tackle shield and Henry had gloves on and was just hitting into the body and Martin Johnson nearly retired from the sport that day to manage Henry as a heavyweight boxer because he said every single shot nearly broke his ribs. Frightening bloke.”
A Tuilagi brother who did make the cut in the Kay XV was Alesana on the left wing in a back three that also featured Chris Ashton and Geordan Murphy.
“You would go to England training and some of the backs that might be playing against him the next few weeks would come up to try and get some information, what is he really like, and you would build the fear a little bit and say he is a monster.
“He didn’t really like January that much when it was cold but at his best, he was absolutely unplayable and would score scored tries that just shouldn’t have been scored… he was probably an underrated player but one of my first choices.”
The rest of the backline consisted of half-backs Danny Care and Owen Farrell, with a midfield combination of Brad Barritt and Fraser Waters, but given his own career in the engine room, Kay had much more to say about the forwards in his Immortals XV.
His front row was made up of Marcos Ayerza, Schalk Brits and Martin Castrogiovanni and he had this to say about his hooker choice. “What is interesting about Schalk Brits is he might not have done as well at Leicester and certain other clubs.
“Saracens adapted their game plan to suit the strengths of Schalk Brits, so some of the traditional roles a hooker might do other people had to fill in for. So he could stand at the back to receive the kicks and be the first ball-carrier back.
“But he is someone who completely revolutionised his position. He was the first guy I ever met when I got into TV, a big beaming smile on his face, always had a big grin on his face every single time he played the game as well but could just do things with the ball in hand and with his footwork that no one else could do. He was so important to the success of Saracens.”
As for his cult figure tighthead, Kay explained: “His hair is probably the only reason I have put him in. There is a bit of hair envy there. A hugely popular around the rugby globe, particularly at Tigers. Castrogiovanni was a tighthead ahead of his time. He could scrummage like a Julian White or a Dan Cole, but he was a really athletic ball carrier, a good off-loader, marauding.
“But he also had an aura, partly because of the image about him, the hair and the whole thing. He is one of the superstars that came into our league and bettered it. Great physique as well. He scrummaged in an era when scrummaging was all important for a tighthead but he could now not have to change his game at all and still be the best tighthead in the Premiership.”
Having partnered with Johnson for club and country, Key had no hesitation in naming him in his XV alongside Maro Itoje. “If Martin Johson hadn’t existed Simon Shaw was the other person I would have put into that position. If Shaw had been born French, he would have been one of the biggest names ever in world rugby – they use their second rows slightly differently.
“But Martin Johnson is someone who never ever lowered his level of performance. If he made a mistake, it never affected him. He would be thinking of his next job. Just always made the right decisions. For someone so tough and demanding of those around him, he had really good empathy for what made the others tick.
“Just the perfect captain really, never thought about what he had to say. Sometimes was at his most powerful when he was quiet but led by example. One of the greatest players of my era certainly… people were scared of him, not just physically but scared of his level of performance. Born winners are really important, people that have that X-factor that no one else quite has.”
At the back row, Kay went with Courtney Lawes along with Neil Back and Dallaglio. “A brilliant lineout forward who is going to win you a lot of ball but also upset the opposition. Exocet tackler. One of the things that has impressed me most is how he has changed his game. When he first started he tackled a certain way and started getting a lot of shoulder injuries, so he changed his tackling.
“Then it was Eddie Jones who said he didn’t carry enough so he changed his game and became more of a primary ball carrier and he did that very well, so he seems to adapt to whatever is thrown at him. He may be the quiet, silent assassin but the performances don’t dip. He has had to deal with a lot of injuries, but he managed to get through those.”
Reflecting on the entire XV he chose, Kay reckoned: “If you were coaching against this team, you would worry because it has got everything. It has got some flash and flair, it’s got a hard edge and it’s a nice mix of what was great about the old stuff and what is good about the new stuff… if you had to pick a side to win any Premiership season over the last 20 years, this one would have done it.”
Ben Kay’s Immortals XV: 15. Geordan Murphy; 14. Chris Ashton, 12. Fraser Waters, 12. Brad Barritt, 11, Alesana Tuilagi; 10. Owen Farrell, 9. Danny Care; 1. Marcos Ayerza, 2. Schalk Brits, 3. Martin Castrogiovanni, 4. Martin Johnson, 5. Maro Itoje, 6. Courtney Lawes, 7. Neil Back, 8. Lawrence Dallaglio.
- Watch BT Sport’s Premiership Immortals on BT Sport 1 from 1pm on Saturday, May 27, to see who makes the greatest Premiership XV of all time. The final episode will be followed by BT Sport’s exclusive live coverage of the Gallagher Premiership final from 2pm on BT Sport 1 btsport.com/immortals
Comments on RugbyPass
Bar the injuries, it’s pretty much their top team …
2 Go to commentsDon’t disagree with much of this but it appears you forgot Rodda and Beale, who started at the Force on the weekend.
9 Go to commentsExcept for the injured Zach Gallagher this would be Saders best forward pack for the season. Blackadder needs to stay at 7, for all of Christies tackling he is not dominant and offers very little else. McNicholfullback is maybe a good option, Fihaki not really upto it, there was a reason Burke played there last year. Maybe Havilli to 2nd five McLeod to wing. Need a strong winger on 1 side to compliment Reece
1 Go to commentsTo me TJ is clearly the best 9 in the competition right now but he's also a proven player off the bench, there's few playmaking players who can come off the bench as calm and settled as he is, Beauden can, TJ can and I doubt any of the scrumhalves in contention can, if they want to experiment with new 9s I want him on the bench ready to step in if they crumble under the pressure. The Boks put their best front row on the bench, I'd like to see us take a similar approach, the Hurricanes have been doing similar things with players like Kirifi.
35 Go to commentsROG has better chance to win a WC if he starts training and make himself eligible as a player. He won’t make the Ireland squad but I reckon he may get close with Namibia (needs to improve his Afrikaans) or Portugal. Both sides had 1000:1 odds to win the RWC in 2023 which is an improvement on ROG’s odds of winning a RWC as a coach. Unlike Top 14 teams, national teams can’t go shopping and buy the best players - you work with the available talent pool and turn them into world beaters.
2 Go to commentsthat backline nope that backline is terrible why would you have sevu Reece when he’s not even top 5 wingers in the comp why have Blackadder when there’s better players no Scott barret isn’t an automatic the guy is more of a liability than anything why have him there when you have samipeni who’s far far better
35 Go to commentsAh, good to find you Nick. Agree with everything about Cale. So much to like about his game
49 Go to commentsNot too bad. Questions at 6, lock and HB for me. The ABs will be a lot stronger once Jordan and Roigard return. Also, work needs to be made to secure Frizzell back for next season and maybe also Mo’unga; they’re just wasting time playing in japan
35 Go to commentsOn the title, i wonder for many of those people it is a case something like a belief in working smarter, not harder?
1 Go to commentsForget Sotutu. One of those whose top level is Super Rugby. Id take a punt on Wallace Sititi Finau ahead of Glass body Blackadder.
35 Go to commentsI’m a pensioner so I've been around a bit. My opinion of SBW is he is an elite athlete and a great New Zealander and roll model. He has been to the top and knows what he's talking about. To all the negative comments regarding SBW the typical New Zealand way, cut that tall poppy down.
17 Go to commentsI'm not listening to a guy moralise over others when this is the guy who walked out mid season on Canterbury RLFC when he had a contract with them, what a hypocrite. All the Kiwis sticking up for this unprincipled individual because they can't accept justified criticism, he has zero credibility or integrity. Those praising him are a joke.
17 Go to commentsI’d put Finau at 6 instead of Blackadder but that’s the only change I’d make. Can’t wait to see who Razor picks.
35 Go to commentsTamati Williams, Codie Taylor, and Same Cane? Not sure about Hoskins Sotutu at test level. Wasn’t that impressive last season. Need a balance between experience and talent/youth.
35 Go to commentsInteresting insight. Fantastic athlete, and a genuine human being.
17 Go to commentsThey played at night in Suva last weekend and it’s an afternoon game forecast for 19 degrees in Canberra this weekend. Heat change is a non issue.
2 Go to commentsWishing Rosie a speedy recovery
1 Go to commentsObscene that SA haven’t been knocking
1 Go to commentsChances of Blackadder being injured seem too high to give him serious consideration. ABs loosie combination finally looked good with 2 committed to tackling and clearing rucks in the centre and Ardie roaming. Hoskins/Ardie together would force one of them into where they don’t excel and don’t get to use their talent, or require a change in tactics. If we continue to evolve last years systems I would take Papali’i and Finau at 6 and 7 (conceding that Blackadder will be injured) and Ardie at 8.
35 Go to commentsArdie’s preferred position 7? Where do they get these writers from? I've no idea where he's playing in Japan, but the previous two seasons he wore the 7 jersey exactly twice.
18 Go to comments