'That is why the football one has created a bit of a furore': Exeter wade into Super League debate and its relevance for rugby
Exeter boss Rob Baxter has given his take on the hop topic that is dominating the sports headlines in England this week, the plan to create a breakaway European Super League that will contain six English football clubs whose long-term participation would be guaranteed as there would be no relegation.
Ring-fencing is something close to the heart of Baxter because if the top-flight in English rugby was a closed shop, Exeter would never have made the ascent for the first time in 2010 and gone on since then to twice win the Premiership title along with becoming last year’s European champions.
Exeter travel to Bristol this Friday, a club that has had its experiences of relegation in recent times and who would have been excluded from the Premiership if the door was shut on them while they were in the second tier.
Instead, Ashton Gate will play host to the table-topping Bears taking on the second-place Chiefs, clubs whose emergence as powerhouses in the English game wasn’t foreseen five years ago and a head-to-head like this would be unable to happen if rugby had adopted the proposed European Super League format of no promotion/relegation.
“In this country, you would always say it [promotion and relegation] is very important, it has always been part of pretty much every sport in this country that there is a way of working yourself through results on the field up through the leagues. It’s massive in this country,” said Baxter at his weekly Exeter media briefing.
SUPER LEAGUE ?
Josh Raisey??? looks are at the teams that might make a theoretical rugby version of football's proposed Super League #superleague https://t.co/f3NxlLuTnl
— RugbyPass (@RugbyPass) April 19, 2021
“But if you say is it the be-all and end-all of competitive sport you would have to say no because in America virtually you never see relegation in any of their top professional sports. It’s not as simple as saying is it the be-all and end-all or the most important part of sport because clearly it’s not.
“But at the same time it is part of British sport and one that I have said many times from a personal perspective I feel very uncomfortable about because I know what we had to go through, not just one season to get promoted to the top league but how we had to work our way through the league structure over a number of seasons. I know everyone in Exeter is in favour of some form of promotion and relegation to remain in the game.
“I don’t know how much crossover there is (between football and rugby) if I am honest with you. In reality, there is such a different scenario happening at the moment in football Manchester United, for example, are owned by American people whose only experience of sport outside of United would have been in a closed shop franchise system, no promotion, no relegation.
“For them, the whole scenario is completely different to how we would look at it at Exeter as a members club that has been promoted through a league structure and the sums of money that are being talked about are sums of money that if you have bought a Premiership football club as a business proposition and that is your first and foremost reason for running that business, not any link with football or any link with the country you are involved in.
“Then you can see how your focus is going to be on where do you get the biggest TV deal, how do you increase your revenue to the maximum level and I just think you can’t tie all sports up into one framework and think one thing suits all. I don’t think that is possible.
Asked if there had even been rumblings in rugby along the lines of what is proposed by football’s European Super League, Exeter boss Baxter continued: “There have always been little bits and pieces happening in the background over a number of years.
“I can remember maybe hearing rumours about it six, seven years ago but it is a different prospect in rugby in a lot of ways… because we have got a pretty well formulated Heineken Cup and Challenge Cup that is quite a number of games.
“Personally, would it work? Any competition would work if it is formatted correctly and it has got everyone’s support. At the end of the day if supporters and TV companies want to watch it pretty much any competition tends to work. The ones that are still in place are the ones that people want to watch on TV or by going into the games.
"Do I understand why other people would say we need to do this because otherwise we might be financially struggling?
– Momentum growing to ring-fence Premiership, putting Exeter on the spot after their inspired rise through the ranks #GallagherPrem https://t.co/vsDbfftMTn
— RugbyPass (@RugbyPass) January 7, 2021
“Any format is possible depending on what people want to watch. Is it right or wrong? Again, I don’t think it is for any one person to say. Most structures have been put in place because they have broken away from a different league structure before, haven’t they? Which one is right and which one is wrong is very difficult to say.
“A lot of the time it’s probably not for the incumbents to talk about. You look at ourselves: it’s a very weird thing for me to be asked questions about a potential European Super League in rugby. Maybe we would be involved because we have been towards the top end of the Premiership now for a few years but before we got to the Premiership it was only the founding clubs in the Premiership that even had a share of Premiership Rugby.
“Ten, eleven years ago we wouldn’t have even been a shareholder so we would have had no hope with it because we didn’t have a share in Premiership Rugby so no one was going to invite us into a European competition,” continued Baxter, highlighting the extent of the Exeter evolution this past decade. “Since then we have become a shareholder and now we might get asked into it. It’s all about timing and where you are and where you end up at what time.
“That is why the football one has created a bit of a furore because there is an element about it that doesn’t feel right. That is the bigger issue. It just doesn’t feel right that you can talk about a European Super League with teams that within their current league structure you wouldn’t deem as being super clubs based on results. Everyone feels uncomfortable with it in any scenario when it’s not results-driven, it’s history driven and it feels odd because our history would say we should not be anywhere near it.
“As people have said, the Premier League is in effect a breakaway league from where it was. Is Premiership Rugby a breakaway league from what it was and effectively it is, it’s a group of shareholder clubs now working within the RFU structure.
“I don’t know if it is okay for any one person to make the call on what is right or wrong. As I said, ultimately what gets proved right or wrong is the structures that stay in place are successful. It’s difficult to try and put a moral value on things because you can be as moral as you like but you have still got to be able to afford for the competition to take place. The reality is those drivers will always be there and they will be a huge part in any decision that gets made.”
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– writes @heagneyl ???https://t.co/o65wxHHqFP
— RugbyPass (@RugbyPass) April 4, 2021
Comments on RugbyPass
Thanks Brett, love your articles which are alway pertinent. It’s a difficult topic trying to have a panel adjudicating consistently penalties for red card issues. Many of the mitigating reasons raised are judged subjectively, hence the different outcomes. How to take away subjective opinions?
4 Go to commentsYes Sir! Surprising, just like Fraser would also have escaped sanction if he was a few inches lower, even if it was by accident that he missed! Has there really been talk about those sanctions or is this just sensational journalism? I stopped reading, so might have missed any notations.
4 Go to commentsAI is only as good as the information put in, the nuances of the sport, what you see out the corner of the eye, how you sum up in a split second the situation, yes the AI is a tool but will not help win games, more likely contribute to a loss, Rugby Players are not robots, all AI can do if offer a solution not the solution. AI will effect many sports, help train better golfers etc.
45 Go to commentsIt couldn’t have been Ryan Crotty. He wasn’t selected in either World Cup side - they chose Money Bill instead. And Money Bill only cared about himself, and that manager he had, not the team.
25 Go to commentsYawn 🥱 nobody would give a hoot about this new trophy. End of the day we just have to beat Ireland and NZ this year then they can finally shut up 🤐
13 Go to commentsTalking bout Ryan Crotty? Heard Crotty say in a interview once that SBW doesen't care about the team . He went on to say that whenever they lost a big game, SBW would be happy as if nothing happened, according to him someone who cares would look down.. Personally I think Crotty is in the wrong, not for feeling gutted but for expecting others 2 be like him… I have been a bad loser forever as it matters so much to me but good on you SBW for being able to see the bigger picture….
25 Go to commentsThis sounds like a WWE idea so Americans can also get excited about rugby, RUGBY NEEDS A INTERNATIONAL CALENDER .. The rugby Championship and Six Nations can be held at same time, top 3 of six nations and top 3 of Rugby championship (6 nations should include Georgia AND another qualifying country while Fiji, Japan and Samoa/Tonga qualifier should make out 6 Southern teams).. Scrap June internationals and year end tours. Have a Elite top six Cup and the Bottom 6 in a secondary comp….
13 Go to commentsThe rugby championship would be even stronger with Fiji in it… I know it doesen’t fit the long term plans of NZ or Aus but you are robbing a whole nation of being able to see their best players play for Fiji…. Every second player in NZ and AUS teams has Fijian surnames… shame on you!!! World rugby won’t step in either as France and England has now also joined in…. I guess where money is involved it will always be the poor countries missing out….
84 Go to commentsNo surprise there. How hard can it be to pick a ball off the ground and chuck it to a mate? 😂
2 Go to commentsSometimes people just like a moan mate!
4 Go to commentsexcellent idea ! rugby needs this 💪
13 Go to comments9 Brumbies! What a joke! The best performing team in Oz! Ditch Skelton for Swain or Neville. Ryan Lonergan ahead of McDermott any day! Best selection bolter is Toole … amazing player
12 Go to commentsI like this, but ultimately rugby already has enough trophies. Trying to make more games “consequential" might prove to be a fools errand, although this is a less bad idea than some others. Minor quibble with the title of the article; it isn’t very meaningful to say the boks are the unofficial world champions when it would be functionally impossible for the Raeburn trophy not to be held by the world champions. There’s a period of a few months every 4 years when there is no “unofficial” world champion, and the Raeburn trophy is held by the actual world champions.
13 Go to commentsIts a great idea but one that I dont think will have a lot of traction. It will depend on the prestige that they each hold but if you can do that it would be great. When Japan beat the Boks (my team) I was absolutely devestated but I wont deny the great game they played that day. We were outclassed and it was one of the best games of rugby I have seen. Using an idea like this you might just give the the underdog teams more of an opportunity to beat the big teams and I can absolutely see it being a brilliant display of rugby. They beat us because they planned for that game. It was a great moment for Japan. This way we can remove the 4 year wait and give teams something to aim for outside of World Cup years.
13 Go to commentsHi, Dave here. Happy to answer questions 🥰
13 Go to commentsDon’t think that headline is accurate. It’s great to see Aus doing better but I’m not sure they’ve shown much threat to the top of the table. They shouldn’t be inflating wins against the lousy Highlanders and Crusaders either.
3 Go to commentsSuch a shame Roigard and Aumua picked up long term injuries, probably the two form players in the comp. Also, pretty sure Clarke Dermody isn’t their coach. Got it half right though.
3 Go to commentsOh the Aussie media, they never learn. At least Andrew Kellaway is like “Woah, yeah it’s great, but settle down there guys” having endured years of the Aussie media, fans, and often their players getting ahead of themselves only to fall flat on their faces. Have the “We'll win the Bledisloe for sure this year!” headlines started yet? It’s simple to see what’s going on. The Aussie teams are settled, they didn't lose any of their major players overseas. The Crusaders and Chiefs lost key experienced All Blacks, and Razor in the Crusaders case, and clearly neither are anywhere near as strong as last year (The Canes and Blues would probably be 3rd & 4th if they were). The Highlanders are annually average, even more so post-Aaron Smith and a big squad clean out. The two teams at the top? The two nz sides with largely the same settled roster as last year, except Ardie Savea for the Canes. They’ve both got far better coaches now too. If the Aussies are going to win the title, this is the year the kiwi sides will be weakest, so they better take their chance.
3 Go to commentsThe World Cup has to be the gold standard, line in the sand. 113 teams compete for what is the opportunity to make the pool stages, and then the knockout games for the trophy. The concept is sound. This must have been the rationale when the World Cup was created, surely? But I’m all for Looking forward and finding new ways for the SH to dominate the NH into the future. The autumn series needs a change up. Let’s start by having the NH teams come south every odd year for the Autumn/Spring series games?
13 Go to commentsWhat’ll happen when the AI models of the future go back in time and try to destroy the AI models of the past standing in their way of certain victory?
45 Go to comments